What about marc gasol? How about gortat? What about peckovic and deandre jordan. To the foolish poster that called battier a cd move, go check cds history. The good and the bad. Cd always drafted the high upside guys. That was his gamble. 3 mid rd picks for eddie griffin. Steve francis over guys like andre miller and jason terry. Hell, yao ming was a gamble in 2002. I don't know if horry was his pick, in fact, that might have been rudy t's pick since he was the scout. Based on track record, I'm pretty sure cd would've drafted gay at 8 vs trading it for shane. The lakers took the raw 17 yr old high schooler the yr after shaq was traded. Why? Upside. Go and look at the players taken in front of him.
I dont know how to properly define money ball. You absolutely should be applying analytics. There's a spectrum of ways to rely on it though...everywhere from "no value" to "panacea." Both are wrong. I think analytics are somewhat less valuable in the NBA than they are in MLB, for a variety of reasons.
Get your facts right, we didn't draft Steve Francis over Miller and Terry. We never had the chance to draft him, we traded for him after Francis publicly stated that he didn't want to play for the Grizzlies. Also Yao Ming was twenty two when we drafted him, that's the same age as a number of draft picks Morey went after. Unless you are now shifting your argument from drafting "young kids" "high potential" Then in that case, what about T-Will, isn't that your definition of "high potential" gamble? What about D-Mo? Even Marcus Morris is your definition of "high potential" gamble. And wouldn't trading Shane Battier for Thabeet and pick (which we eventually used to get D-Mo) be another example of low risk massive reward gamble? Even though Thabeet wasn't the focal point of the trade he is one of those "high potential" players as well wouldn't you agree? What about Jordan Hill as well? Arguing that Shane Battier was a Morey pick is pointless. Morey was assistant GM at the time, and many would argue that he was a JVG selection as well.
You really want to emulate CD's draft history? Go look at that history and see how few of his "risks" panned out for the team. As for always taking high potential guys, he passed on Rashard Lewis, who wanted to come here, three times to pick up Micheal Dickerson, Bryce Drew, and Mirsad Türkcan. And that Eddie Griffin trade sure was a winner. Ah the glory days of having a GM like CD who can see the "potential" in players. Outside of Mobley was there a non-lottery pick starter drafted by the team during his tenure? Luther Head was probably one of his top 5 picks over 10 years. The Battier trade happened when CD was GM, so even if Morey suggested it or even was responsible for it, rather than just assisted (which seems to all be rumors, which I have never seen any documented sources for), ultimately it goes on CD's resume, just like wins and losses for an assistant coach don't count on his record when he is promoted to head coach. CD signed off on it, so he takes the credit and the blame. Besides CD had a history of adding veterans who were often past their prime. Glen Rice, Charles Oakley, Mark Jackson, Rod Strickland, Derek Anderson, Jim Jackson, ect. One of the reasons the team struggled under VanGundy to advance in the playoffs is because the supporting cast was too old and not atheletic enough and the salary cap situation was in bad shape. CD had some good moves for stars during his tenure here too, but he did have the benefit of one or more stars already on the roster every time he made one of those moves. CD Roster moves
Moneyball should be the building block for each team but that alone can not give you a ring always, there are variables that need to be considered. I think for NBA, the Pistons that beat Laker's dream team is a testament that Money Ball works.
I believe my initial post was pretty close to what he said at Sloan last year. It wouldn't surprise me if Morey did talk about the "potential" of players. He is, after all, the same guy who claimed he never called his players "assets" before. I think it comes down to this: If the NBA didn't have the minimum age requirement and Morey was presented with the choice of drafting Shabazz Muhammad (the nation's #1 high school player) or Terrence Jones from Kentucky, he'd probably go with the latter based on his drafting history even though Muhammad could be special. I hope he changes his risk averse approach in drafting players and starts seeking guy who have high upside potential whether they're raw or not, because neither "cashing in assets" for elite players nor trying to lure stars to Houston via free agency are working.
I think a problem (with the Rockets) is that failure is rewarded in the NBA with high draft picks. They have not failed hard enough...=( And in basketball, it seems that you need at least one superstar to build around. At some point a really high draft pick seems imperative to get a superstar. Recent trends seem to indicate that the superstar can then be used to lure other stars. Almost better to gut and tank and build from scratch. Not sure about the Nets draft picks but offhand it seems they are in a great position where they suck and also have a (super)star. They might get a lotto pick and sign Dwight. Again - I'm not sure about their first round pick this year but you get my point (i think).
That's flawed logic. Just because a player is undervalued doesn't mean that you can get them for nothing. Morey has said that Lebron is the most undervalued player in the game, so do you also think that he shouldn't cost a top 8 pick? There are plenty of bad MLE signing that teams are unable to trade. Like it or not the fact that the Rockets were able to unload the final 3 years of Swift's contract was a big part of the deal.
Who are all of the elite underclassman that we have passed up? Rudy Gay? Didn't Morey try to acquire Cousins on a couple of occassions? Didn't he go after Rubio? Didn't we draft Donte Green? Here's a quote from Morey himself that sums things up pretty well: “We’d like to get into the next tier of a winner in terms of being a championship contender. The only way is to skew young and skew towards players with upside." http://articles.boston.com/2012-03-04/sports/31119842_1_rocket-science-houston-rockets-yao-ming/2 That doesn't sound like what you are describing. The fact is that the underclassmen with potential go high in the draft and the 4 year players with less upside gets pushed down. Picking in the late lottery the best players still available are likely going to be 4 year guys.
You also said that demand was't high for him. Whereas demand for elite players like LeBron is always there. Role players like the one in question are readily available via free agency and minor trades. Like it or not, MLE deals by default (because they're mle) are easy to move. If anyone's logic is flawed, it's yours. I didn't use the words elite or underclassmen in my post. Those are your words not mine, but "Ray Lewis with a basketball" who's now playing in Greece over DJ is another example. Morey apparently is always after everybody, but I'm talking about what he's actually done. I'm sure the apologists will have a slew of excuses ready for him. You can also find quotes to backup any position you want because GMs often lie, engage in doublespeak, and adopt irreconcilbe positions and Morey is no different (see his comments at Sloan last year about not drafting based on potential and his denial of using the term "assets" to describe his own players).
No I didn't say "that the demand for him wasn't high". What I said was "the demand for him wasn't as high as it should have been". Those are two very different things. MLE deals are easy to move? Really? How easy was it for the Knicks to move Jarred Jeffries? Think the Nets would like to move Johan Petro? How easy has it been for Phx to unload Josh Childress (although acquired in a sign and trade his deal is less than full MLE)? Travis Outlaw's deal was MLE type money and he was so easy to move that NJ amnestied him and ate the final $28 Million of his contract. So this "drafting history" is Rudy Gay and a 2nd round choice? We drafted Montiejunas this year in the first round, right? He was 21 years old. We drafted Donte Greene who was a freshman. Budinger was an underclassman. The only pattern is we take the best player available regardless of class. What is the quote that you are refering to? Do you have a link?
