I have no problem with anyone critiquing KMart. But be fair.. No score? 25 was a forth of our points tonight; however, his defense was atrocious. Lee outplayed him tonight
Courtney Lee is not better than K-Mart, at least in this lineup. You lose K-Mart, Scola's production will dip even further and we don't score for long stretches. Lee can be a starter, but not as an offensive option, think Arron Afflalo.
I thought Lee had the hot hand at the end of the game. Would've been nice if they had drawn up a play for him on that last possession.
I've felt this way for a while now. They are at least very comparable. Martin and Monta Ellis are the 2 most over-rated players in the league. Prior to this year Martins ability to get to the line at such a high clip gave him an advantage. But now he's simply not a good enough scorer to make up for his abysmal defense. The fact that his teams have consistently played better with him off the floor is impossible for me to ignore. Kevin Martin Adjusted Plus Minus, which takes into account who you get to play with, which makes it a much better number than the flat plus minus. It can be unreliable in small samples, but this is not a small sample. 11-12 -3.03 10-11 -3.44 09-10 -1.32 08-00 -1.47 07-08 -1.93 Courtney Lee is also overrated defensively, but he is still very comparable to Martin, and does it substantially cheaper. Lee isn't a great option himself, but neither is Martin, and he makes a lot of money. I've been wanting Martin gone for a while, i was thrilled when i heard we traded him before the league screwed us.
if there was just a way to combine them both into one person..offence and defense...hmm get er done morey..
i believe clee is the better player... he made clutch shots down the stretch and played fantastic defense also down the stretch to send it to ot... i think back and remember he also made 4 clutch freethrows under a minute a couple games back... he has a clutchness ab0out him that i like(even if he missed an alley-oop as a rookie)... besides he plays much better defense than martin... speaking of martin, why did he take a 30foot three pointer with 2 seconds still left..? he should have drove tried to either penetrate or draw a foul... not take a ridiculously deep three...
i know that ball didn't have a chance to go into the hoop but gasol did grab the rim before it went in. dumb move by gasol but it was a nicely designed play and courtney lee had the balls to make it.
Well, I think Lee is a more balanced player (offense AND defense) than Martin. So, Lee >>> Martin, IMO. I hope Lee gets a chance to become our SG and we can resign him (at the end of the season). The trade package we'll get in return for Martin (and other players) will be crucial. Or we package Martin for an 'All-Star' caliber big guy (Al Jefferson or Pau Gasol), or we trade Martin in order to receive a balanced 'All-Star' caliber SF (Danny Granger or Gerald Wallace) ... Our team will be ready for a (deep) playoff run, if one of the above scenarios happen!
People overestimate Martin's 'bad defense'. There are a lot of terrible defenders in the league who you don't hear about because they're either on teams too bad to care or teams good enough to hide them. We're neither. Martin's bad, but far from the worst rotation player in a league where Anthony Morrow, Rodney Stuckey, Jose Calderon, Jordan Crawford, and Michael Redd play. However, it's obvious to everyone that Martin is not the same player he was last year...his offense has slipped. It's not just a rule change, because let's be honest, they suck at actually enforcing that rule change and Martin still gets 80% of his foul draw attempts. It's the trade, or the new coach, or him just getting older, or all of the above. And Lee is having his best season and has shown at least the ability to be a legit 3s-and-D glue guy, who I think are underrated as a whole in the league (they just need to be paired with creators and good post players). So until Martin shows he's got a bounce-back in him I think the premise of the thread is fairly defensible.
Martin does not gel with this new coaching staff and team as it's set up. I agree it is likely he'll be traded.
Lee has become a deadly 3 point shooter. I mean he it feels like he is almost automatic when it comes to that corner spot. He isn't a great scorer off the dribble, but he has shown he can knock down that pull up jumper from abt 20 ft. At the end of last nights game I was calling for Lee to get a 3 point attempt, but they let Martin go 1 on 1 and you could see his legs were not there as he desperately tried to get lift and had to lean forward and still hit the front iron. I wouldn't mind including Scola and Martin in a trade. We need to offload Scola's contract. He was a great PF with Yao, but he we can't afford to pay him or Martin for what they provide. Both can score, both can't defend, both can't pass that well. I would love to have Lee in the starting line up, our backcourt could defend a lot better.
I love Lee, but he's not better than Martin he's too inconsistent with his shots and can't create as much off the dribble, and I don't like how he finishes around the rim.
IMO this is just as bad as not creating a shot at all ... Lee is looking pretty good when he gets a chance to be a game changer later in the game. I'm on board with trading Martin. I don't think he's really bad, but our guys are looking to him at crunch time and he can't handle it.
can i just say ...am i the only one who misses Rick Adelman? I truly think last year's team was far more fun to watch. Our offense was so much more fluid and we really seemed to gel towards the end of the season. We could not overcome our personel problems; we just had too many holes to fill. But i feel like players better understood their roles, that the offesnse seemed to take better advantage of individual player strengths, and it felt like players knew where they needed to be positionally. I just don't think we are built very well for the kind of offense McHale wants to run. I'm amazed at our record because i actually think last year's team was a better team. I don't think we've ever needed to make personel changes more than we need to right now.
