I'm sorry but I don't want Pau in a Rockets jersey. He is soft and he is getting too old. We already get this with Scola. If the Rockets are going to make trades it needs to be for talent under 30 years old, that way it can be talent to build around.
Not immune to it. But this age thing is just not necessarily the big deal you're making it out to be when it comes to assessing trade value. Kevin Garnett was 31 years old when the Timberwolves traded him to Boston. Now he's 36 years old, still easily holding his own and has helped the Celtics appear in two finals while winning one. Try and tell the people in Minnesota that KG was "declining" when they traded him. Today most people couldn't even tell you who he was traded for much less try an assert that the Celtics paid too much considering how old Garnett was when he was acquired. You make this seem as if Gasol's decline based on some sort of an aging mechanism is a foregone conclusion. More than likely, just like Garnett, he'll be playing high quality NBA basketball 5 years from now. You do realize it is possible for both players involved in a trade to go on and have marvelous careers, don't you? Because that's what happened with Vlade and Kobe. Actually that's how trades are supposed to work out. If your point is look how great Kobe turned out to be, not even Jerry West in his wildest dreams, could've imagined that he was trading for one of the 10 greatest players to ever play the game. The kid was 18 years old! Nobody has a crystal ball. On the other hand look at the career Vlade had in the NBA. 16 years in the NBA. One of just 6 players in NBA history to score 13,000 points, grab 9,000 rebounds, pass for 3,000 assists and block 1,500 shots. The other 5 are Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Garnett and Houston's own Hakeem Olajuwon. Vlade was an All Star and played on a Laker team that reached the NBA finals in 1991. Probably more responsible for opening up the sport to the international European market than any other player. Hardly a bad trade for anyone to have made and by the way, another example of a big man with an extended prime to his career. Not exactly on the downhill slide when he turned 31. The Lakers insist on getting star power players in return for star power players. When the deal involves strictly journeyman then the Lakers respond by putting journeyman in the deal. That's how it works. It's not a matter of the Rockets throwing all their spare parts and loose ends into a pile that supposedly equals the value of one star they expect to receive in return. I'm pretty sure Morey knows this whether his fan base does or not. And generally when the star power player also happens to be a big man versus the star player (in this case Lowry) on the other end being a small player, the asking price includes other players as well. I think it's totally fine for Morey and his fan base to walk away from Gasol and let the Lakers make a deal somewhere else. I don't understand why fans are indignant about it. Gasol's a top 10 big man in the NBA and the Rockets can't have him unless they're prepared to put their best players and prospects on the table. This isn't a yard sale. You want to get something of value you better be prepared to give in return.
Gasol is no longer a top 10 big man in the league dwight griffin aldridge love bosh bynum cousins duncan dirk monroe al jefferson josh smith hibbert marc gasol are all straight up better or arguably better than pau
I think part of the problem has been that the Rocket fan base was operating under the misconception that somehow the Lakers were eager and motivated to find someone to take Gasol off their hands due to his salary requirements and relative age. This is preposterous nonsense. The Buss family is not overly concerned about Luxury Tax issues associated with the new CBA or anything of that nature. The Lakers recently signed an extremely lucrative cable television contract agreement that would easily offset any of those cost considerations. In fact the converse is true. The Buss family wants to ensure that the product, namely the basketball team is more competitive and focused on playing for championships then it has ever been. There is no desperation involved. The Lakers will move Gasol if they can find the right deal, just as they attempted to do in December with the aborted Chris Paul deal. If not, then they will happily retain his services and plot a different course to add some talent at the point guard position a different way. That secondary approach by the way could involve the Lakers making a pitch to the Rockets for Goran Dragic. But under those circumstances, it wouldn't include as part of the offer, Pau Gasol.
Certainly could be argued that way, particularly by the people most interested in acquiring his services but don't want to pay too high a price. I guarantee you if he's a Rocket in three weeks time, your fans won't be dissing him by claiming he's not one of 10 best big men in the game How many of the guys on your list have been the NBA rookie of the year. Won gold medals in international world championship competition. Selected and played in 4 All Star games. Made three appearances in the NBA Finals and won two championships? There aren't 10 big men in the game or on your list, either one, with the resume of Pau Gasol. There probably aren't 5. I'm pretty sure you know that.
If you're going to try to say something is wrong with my logic at least take the time to discuss the depth of the point I'm making. My criticism isn't with anyone who doesn't want to trade for Pau (I'm in that category) my criticism is to anyone who thinks his value is less than commanding a serious trade offer. Pau's combination of size with skills that are more immune to age than PGs in the league (that was my argument, his skills are going to stay for 5 years at a higher chance than Lowry's because of how demanding it takes for a stocky 6 foot PG to be elite --- here is the depth you refuse to respond to). In terms of the today and now, I can still find a justification because of how well Dragic plays on both ends of the court and it puts us in a better position for the 2012 FA to make real decisions on what our team will be. You say "I don't know why you think Gasol is immune to father time." and my response is, "I don't know why you don't read but can write and posts on boards." I said comparatively speaking, a 7 foot big man's decline is a lot less likely than an undersized and stocky PG because of the demands of the position. Kyle HAS to stay quick and athletic so is the furthest thing from immune to father time. Pau on the other hand just needs to stay big and keep his shot and he has value. Dirk is declining, the guy has to take a week off for his body, but come playoff time father time doesn't matter. I even brought up Tim Duncan! How are you not reading this?! I'm making salient points and you ask me what the hell is wrong with my logic? Who are you and why do you refuse to read? So frankly, be quiet if you're not going to make a real response to what I was actually posting. I don't think I ever took a position on any trade involving Lowry for Pau... I'm just not gonna let homer posters think their assessment is correct that Pau is worth a bad Scola contract + 09ers --- why on Earth would that happen? Any real basketball fan knows that's a ridiculous trade. Your proposal is dumb because Morey is NOT trading Courtney Lee and if you think he is willing then you don't know our GM very well. He values versatility on both ends of the court and Lee is all of that and more. If you think the Lakers are about to sell a Pau Gasol for an unathletic Scola, a no name in Patterson, and a former Phoenix Suns guard not named Nash then you're also a shallow poster. The NBA isn't fantasy basketball, there are million and billion dollar dynamics at play and Mr. Buss is trying to make the Lakers a financial juggernaut and you don't do that by making the kind of trade you proposed unless you know that trade means a championship and you and I both know it doesn't get them there. If anything... we can afford to make a lateral move for many reasons.... the Lakers refuse to do so under new leadership.
This may be a little off topic, but just so everyone has some "skin in the game" I found a trade I posted on this site a while ago as an example of what kind of value I think it would take to get Pau (and more importantly the Lakers to make any move before the deadline) since it seems like getting Pau is what the Rockets staff really wants to do -- for better or for worse -- and Lowry wasn't involved in that package because personally I love the kid and his contract. Basically, I don't see LA moving a 7 footer without gaining an upgraded front court or a serious PG in return.... no one is going to trade them that serious PG so they will have to take the next best thing (which isn't that much of a drop off at 15-20 mpg) in Dragic. LAL trades both 7 footers to get Dwight and a PG and has to take on Hedo to get rid of other bad contracts so when they amnesty Hedo they will only have 4-5 significant contracts on the books once Fisher retires. If you're not giving LA a PG like Kyle or another frontcourt player that's comparable in size in the package.... you're not getting Gasol, makes zero sense for LAL and their new leadership. Trades don't happen on paper, they happen in an owners heart and mind and Pau brought two rings to LA and it will take a serious package to get him out of LA a la Dwight or CP3. Or according to roslolian we can just "throw Patterson in to sweeten the deal" ROFLMAO. :grin:
The LA Lakers receive Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, Brian Grant and a late first round pick. The Miami Heat receive..... 32yo Shaquille O'Neal
The LA Lakers are the picture book team for the inequality in the nba, they draft terribly, they trade assets for change, and yet they achieve success through the vast advantage of their market. If they were an NFL team, their front office competence would have them cellar dwelling for decades on end.
Rockets are adamant there is a 3 year window with Gasol based on Allstar type performance. IMHO 2 years of allstar level, 1 year borderline... then he drops off to role player
You can't really argue that Garnett's 31 years equal Gasol's. Garnett was a No.1 option, DPOY type of player, perennial NBA 1st team selection, MVP. He was that dominant. Annihilator. Gasol had a nice performance against Boston, one good Finals showcase, the in the first one Ariza played well, second one Boston outplayed them. Gasol's defense is inconsistent..... the only things he brought what was consistent were his rebounding numbers scoring was sometimes 15, 16.... sometimes 20, 29 but rarely scoring outburst of 30 or more. so no wonder his career numbers were around 18 pts and 9.8 rbs. There is a reason why he is only called the best skilled man. To divert from the fact that he could not hold his own against allstar caliber star players for more than 2 years.
He is a role player now, anybody playing with Kobe is a role player. Kobe sets this guy up so well. Just curious but who exactly sets up Scola? To me getting Pau over Scola is a lateral move except we are giving up way more talent in return. I would much rather have Pekovich from Minn who is a beast down low.
Lamar Odom and Butler were in their prime and Shaq was out of shape, on the down and disgruntled. Plus Butler got them Kwame which didn't turn out the way they hoped but at the time everyone including me thought it was a coup and even though it didn't work out Kwame got them Gasol. Which definitely was a coup for the Lakers and helped them forget about Shaq!
Shaquille played 2 years of good basketball... what counts is the title within 2 years. Even Lebron or Durant can guarantee a title within two years with Wade as their partner alone.
Hey I am not taking sides on this issue, just clearing the air and keeping the facts straight. Miami got the better deal. No question in my mind. But reading the posters comment you would think they got nothing for Shaq. Butler and Odom had value that is all I am saying and IMO when you were going to lose Kobe if Shaq stayed (and I think a lot of Laker brass believed that) then what they walked away with was not bad. In addition the situation is different they are at no risk of losing Gasol. He wants to stay put and if he does Kobe isn't walking either. The Lakers want to be relevant this year and do not think they can do it without some kind of personnel change. But make no mistake about it, they will not give away Gasol unless they honestly think a trade improves the team today. I do not think they believe Scola and Dragic accomplish that.
Instead of just spouting off an erroneous list of names most of whom could not carry Gasol's jock strap you should look for opinions of people who have more NBA knowledge in their pinky than both of us put together. A great starting spot is http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7100076/nba-player-rankings-11-15. Hope the link works. If not it is simple to find.
