The difference in both teams is Lowry often keeps this team a decent defensive team because Scola, Martin, and Hill are often such bad defenders. Where on Rondos team he neither has to make up for offense or defense so drastically for most of his teammates who can do both at most positions.
A good offense more times than not is lead by a good PG. The same can not be said on the defensive end. But you are right, personnel means a lot. Exactly why some might say Rondo has had a much easier go of it running out there with HOFers.
Who on the team is better at getting Luis the ball in a pick-and-pop or on a fast break, where he's most effective? Who on the team is better at getting Kevin Martin the ball for a 3-pointer in transition, his most efficient shot? Saying a very solid starting PG makes his teammates better isn't at all a stretch. I don't get why you're taking such exception to that.
This is what I was responding too ^ This poster is trying to give credit to Lowry for Budingers falling out of the rotation. I'm sorry, but that is just absurd.
Well someone is leading this team to victories. A team with no stars. I think Lowry is as close to an actual star as you can get. That can also be said about Kevin Martin. I think its equal parts those two with Lowry being the most consistant on most nights. Scola's scoring and tenacity adds a good level of low post moves to get these wins. If you are better than all these teams year after year around 500? then someone on this team is very good at what the do. I think Kyle Lowry is one of those guys. Think of all these other supposed stars on losing teams.. So who is so good on the Rockets? Cant be nobody. Someone has to be the reason they are better than half the league for 3 years straight.
Bud being out of the rotation has more to do with his inconsistent energy level, IMO. Though Bud is a +10.2 this year and +6.5 last year per 36 minutes when Lowry is on the floor with him. Compare that with -1.9 and -0.3 for this year and last year, respectively, when Bud is on the floor without Lowry. Its easy to pull up similar numbers for other players, and it actually goes back to the 09/10 season as well. That's the interesting thing with Lowry. The team, overall, is just better with him on the floor. That's why he has such strong supporters.
Its someone. So who is leading this team that has a better record then.. Kevin Loves talented team Montae Ellis and Stephon Currys talented team Carmelo Anthonys team before Lin came around There is a guy or a few on this team that has to go to for credit. One of those is obviously either Martin, Scola, or Lowry.
One or a few of our guys is obviously better than some of the best players on the Knicks, Warriors, and Twolves. Yes it is conceivable to say Lowry is better than Ellis and or Curry of the Wolves. It is conceivable that Martin is the better guard than Montae Ellis and Ricky Rubio. I says so in the teams record that it is possible.
Budinger was way better when Lowry was helping him in the second unit. They had great chemistry, as we saw at the end of last year. Dragic has sticky fingers.
Budinger played well ... he had a major slump last year....did not recover well from it. I think they are going to eventually trade some of their 2nd round picks. On the clock: Scola Budinger If the right deal came along Parsons Llull
Well, Lowry can shoot now. 2 years ago I would say Rondo all day, he can rack up 20 assists with ease sometimes. He can rebound, defend, pass, but can't shoot for notin. If we were to get Gasol and Rondo somehow I would be okay, but out of Lowry and Rondo, I'm sticking with Lowry.
I compared him to Billups because it took a few years for Chauncey to become elite. I would trust Adelman more in evaluating PG talent and he dumped Brooks because Lowry is a superior PG (and it's not even close). http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/billuch01.html Look at the jump he made from 2005 to 2006 in assists. As far as "ceiling", Lowry is already a better rebounder than Chauncey ever was. If you want to compare their 6th years (Chauncey's first year in DET): Lowry: 15.6 pts, 7.6 assists, 5.3 rebs, 35.5 minutes, .417 FG, .375 3ptFg, 87.2% FT, 2 steals, 3.1 TOs Billups: 16.2 pts, 3.9 assists, 3.7 rebs, 31.4 minutes, .421 FG, .392 3ptFg, 87.8% FT, 0.9 steals, 1.8 TO. Billups best year was 18.5 pts, 8.6 assists, 3.1 rebs in 36.1 minutes a game. Lowry has to develop a better mid range game before his scoring is consistently higher. We've already seen a consistent jump in his 3ptFG%. We really don't know what Lowry's ceiling will be. It really depends on the system and guys around him during his prime years. There's no reason he can't average 19 pts, 6 rebs and 10 assists one year if his stats continue to trend the way they are.
I was the first to vote for Rondo. Kyle is having a good year and i'm happy for him, but until he can prove himself for more than one year and lead his team in the playoffs then there really is no room for discussion. This is almost like saying a center like Luc Longley having a good year and then trying to compare him to Hakeem.
I would say Rondo over Kyle because I think he is the best defensive point guard in the league and because he's battle tested when it comes to championship games and championship level play. Having said that, Kyle has closed the gap this year between himself and the other great point guards in incredible fashion. I would rate the great PGs around the league........Paul, Rose, Williams, Rondo and Kyle in that order as the top five with Kyle being the most improved in that group this year and on an accelerated ramp that could move him to third behind Paul and Rose in another season if he continues his ascension. I think that Westbrook, Lawson, Irving, Wall and Evans (more of a combo guard), form the next group of the highest potential PGs in the league. The deciding factor at this position is durability. PG's are typically smallish like Kyle, and they take a beating game in and game out. I would never be comfortable having my best player be 6 feet or 6 feet one over a career. They're like running backs in the NFL. Steve Nash is the exception.
Freethrows are an important part of your game. Shooting fts is still part of the game, and players get around a few pts of their score from fts. Using his FG% to measure his shooting ability is classic ignorance, almost all of his points are scored via layups/dunks/drives into the paint. Look at how high Dwight Howard's FG% is, are you saying he's a better shooter than Ray Allen? As far as Rondo vs Lowry I would say Rondo is better, but only if you exclude salary. I give him props for being consistently good, Lowry as we saw has problems sustaining his current level of play. His 25% 3s and 60% FTs are fatal flaws for any franchise pg, what happens when the opponent goes zone and fouls him whenever he gets past his defender? Also, I wonder if Rondo works as hard on his game as people think. Shooting is one of the things that you can really work on and improve with practice, Lowry, Parker, even Rubio had horrible js coming in and developed their shot to an at least respectable level. The fact that he still hasn't improved his shooting when its clearly his biggest flaw after all these years tells me he's peaked.
Rondo is a funny thing, most players tend to be overrated by their own fans, Rondo is the exact opposite. Most Celtics fans I know think of him as a fundamentally flawed player that has had them covered up by the fact he's been playing with 3 Hall of Famers. Ainge is looking to move him, because his role was to complement them, and he's very very good at that, in fact he may be the prototype player to put around 3 players like Boston had, their time is over, so is his.
I don't agree with that statement... Ainge is looking at an old team and he knows he will have to re-build.. When all the big 3 were down it was Rondo that made that team tick.. Rondo and Lowery have a couple of things in common.. They play with passion, give you a 100% every night and they are the spark plugs to their team. T_Man
Agreed. It's really close, but I'm prone to go with shooters so I take Lowry. Plus, his attitude is so much better.
Here is the way I look at it - Tier 1 - CP3, Derrick Rose, Deron Williams Tier 1.5 - Westbrook, Nash, Parker, Rondo, Lowry Those are the best 7 PGs in the NBA and are a cut above everyone else. There is solid gap between these PGs and everyone else. That is the order I would pick them up in if I needed to win a game tomorrow.
