Education in America (inspired by MannyRamirez)

My opinion is that they spend too much time teaching you useless **** in grade school and shouldn't force college on so many people. Trade schools should be a viable alternative for a lot of people and it should be available sooner.

 

Waiting for Superman is streaming on Netflix

Pretty much sums up everything wrong with the public education system. Parents have no choices and therefore no control over their child's education (at least this is true for the 95% of America who can't do private or home school). Since no choices exist, bad school and education systems stay in existence (their customers can't go anywhere else).

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This movie is very anti-union btw.

 

giddy,

After all these years of posting, you don't know that there is a space between my name??!! Good thread topic and I'll weigh in but I can't right now...reserving my spot.

 

I'm drunk but I will tell you that I resent my government "education". I hated it from day 1.

 

I've sort of posted on this before. Let me mull it over and see if I have anything else to add to that novella.

 

It's anti-union based on a bad union that made bad decisions.

The implicit suggestion in the movie is a move towards the Finnish model, with a caveat that charter schools are NOT the silver bullet.

Things like the following, that imply increasing skills for teachers and a higher degree of unionization---

The problem isn't unions. The problem is that they're not acting in their own best interest. However, the Finnish model proves that there is space for unions and government working to create what has been the best educational system in the world.

 

After being in the teaching profession since this past August and growing up as a child of 2 teachers (retired), education has always been highly valued by my family. Yet, I can easily tell you things are different today than they were when my dad last taught (1995). For starters, TN is one of the few states that still allows corporal punishment aka paddlings. But yet you never see it - from what I have been told, that even though it is not illegal, it is just a path that you do NOT want to go down. No Child Left Behind is another, that IMO has been a detriment to the education system. It is admirable that we want to provide a free education to every child but let's quit fooling ourselves. Many of the kids we are teaching these days have a terrible work ethic and are beyond lazy. It is not only that way where I teach but I imagine in TX and any other state. All kids want is a grade. Heaven forbid that there involves any critical thinking.

Now, I would like to see this country go toward a different model. One that has kids pick a career path after their 5th grade year. I know that is not the greatest method (what if someone changes their mind before they graduate), but we need to get kids started on the right path as soon as we can. If someone wants to do a career that really doesn't require a college degree, why should we force that kid to take 4 credits of math? I can tell you after a month which one of my kids has college potential and which ones do not want to have anything to do with college. That later group of kids is killing it for the ones that want to go to higher ed with their apathy. I really don't know the solution as the start-up costs for scrapping our current system and going with something like this would be astronomical. However, something needs to be done as the current system is not working, IMO.

 

I think the education issue is far more complicated than gets talked about. I think teacher unions are an issue but the way schools are funded is also a major issue. The state and local school administration beauracracies are a big issue. The lack of uniform educational standards around the country is a big problem. The fact that we went from an era where one parent could support a family to an era where both parents must work now is a big issue because kids don't get the same support at home. The lack of focus on basics is a problem. If a kid wants to take a CSI class, do that stuff in college. In high school you should be learning math, science, english, history, art, computer science, etc. I think nutrition is also a big problem. These kids eat crap and they perform like crap, big surprise. This is the most important issue to the future of this country in my opinion and it needs a complete overhaul. Also these for profit colleges, they should not be eligible for financial aid. That is just a sham. I have no issue with trade schools and what have you but school isn't simply for getting a job. It's to educate the populace to make better decisions in their lives. An ignorant guy with a great job is still ignorant and that hurts society.

 

I think one of the primary reasons our nation is in the state of affairs it's in is because of our education system.

For elementary, middle, and most of high school, I studied overseas. I finally came back to the US for senior year in high school before going off to college.

IMO public high schools were a joke compared to my education abroad. In spite of taking every AP class offered at my high school, it wasn't too difficult. In addition to my academics, I had a part-time job, after-school sports, and orchestra. I finished with close to a 4.0 GPA and a 1500 on the SAT.

Looking back, it was strange to see my high school peers label good students as "nerds" and to worship the idiots who played football. I skirted a fine line between the two by being involved in sports and my studies, but it was disheartening to see other 'academics-first' kids being bullied. Valuing education should have been sexy. But learning was uncool.

In fact, there was no desire to learn knowledge for its own sake; instead, only the material for the next exam was crammed in, spat on the paper the day of the test, and forgot within minutes of leaving the room for the next class. I would pop in the Encarta CD and just read articles for fun - my peers never did any such thing. They went to hang out at the mall, go hunting and fishing, or have parties with alcohol. Few people read novels for leisure.

Lastly, there was little to no help for teachers at home. Parents in America aren't as strict as parents overseas and/or their attention is dominated by work. That lack of discipline seeped into the classroom where disruptive students were cheered on. It was embarrassing to watch a helpless teacher in that moment.

Although higher education might be a hustle, it will be a must for my children. Every dollar I have spent for college and graduate school has made employment worries meaningless. For my nieces and nephews who are majoring in physics, petroleum engineering, electrical engineering, and others, there is no difficulty finding internships with the best companies in the world. Most of their peers are international students because there are so few American students majoring in the fields where employment is great.

Fitting in with mediocre people who have gone nowhere in life was too great a pressure for my friends. I wish more people knew just how many lucrative doors close when they make that fateful decision.

 

Strong work ethic needs to be taught to children when they are little. That is something parents need to do. But as a poster noted above, it's hard with 2 parents working full time schedules.

What I've noticed in college, although my situation might be different from other universities because I go to a party school, is that most students just attend college because they feel it's a necessary step. I went to junior college for 2 years and worked almost full time before attending a four year school, and I think it was very beneficial to my work ethic. Many of my classes are filled with lazy kids that have never worked in their life, and it shows in their studies. What's even worse is many of these kids can BS their way through school and get a degree without learning anything useful.

 

It may be a unique case because I went to a major metropolitan university, University of Houston, but about 20% of the people I was taking upper-level courses with had an undergraduate degree or were in their 6th year when I was in my 3rd year. I think it had to do with motivation, not dumbness or stupidity. Many of those "sabaticals" were quite smart but were either not dedicated or had a scatter-brain and just couldn't committ.

Kids need direction. A lot of those 20%ers found direction after graduating and realizing their degree was worthless or not what they had expected. So they decided to go back to school to do what they wanted. My brother shares the same traits as many of the 20%ers, so I tell him to consider something other than anthropology.

 

Funds aren't fixing the problem

Funding for education as gone way up with no increase in test scores or grades.

There are standards. The federal government forces states to meet certain national standards if they want funding (funding their citizens are paying for). For Example, Race to the Top

 

Judging education by standardized testing is stupid. I'm talking about standardized curriculum. I don't want parents making choices on opting out of basic educational curriculum. If parents want input into the education of their children then they should do that at home in building study habits and work ethic. It's parental choices and school boards that are a gigantic part of the problem today. The textbook they use in Maryland shouldn't be all that different from the one they use in Texas.

This is a good example of what I'm talking about.

Between school years 1999 and 2005, the number of central administrators employed by Texas public schools grew by 32.5%, overall staffing in public schools grew by 15.6%, while the number of teachers grew only 13.3%. Really?

Any your whole federal funding thing is totally lame. State and local governmets seem to bear the brunt of education funding, not the feds. This is for Texas in 2003.

Per pupil public school local funding, school year 2003 ($4,278)

Per pupil public school federal funding, school year 2003 ($800)

http://www.window.state.tx.us/comptrol/wwstand/wws0512ed/

 

That's just awful. Taking a child's education away from the parents. It goes against everything about being American. To each his own in this country. I'll raise my kids thank you very much, not you, the government, or the majority. I take it you support imposing said national standards on private/home schools as well? Screw anyone who wants to teach their kid what they think is important?

 

I think the education system needs severe reform. It was structured to give you a salaried position and ultimately for the industrial age. It needs to focus and foster more on building a strong base, and more time for exploration and specialties too. This is vague I know, but the only point I wanted to make is the necessity for reform as our educational system can be a hinderance to some potential bright minds in many ways.

 

Sorry, but we have child welfare laws. You are not free to abuse your children or keep them uneducated. Your freedom ends when it comes to hurting your children or hurting society by making your children a future burden on society.

Libertarians can be so crazy.

 

child welfare laws have nothing to do with educating children.