Another Asset Held On to Too Long

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

morpheus133 said: ↑

Morey is only "failing" if you have some good reason to believe someone else would be doing better. Some of you act like there are all these superstars just begging to come to Houston, if only we had a different GM willing to do the deal. The problem is I have never heard any reasonable explanation as to why a different GM would have a superstar here in Houston over the past 2 seasons after we lost both of ours to injuries. The Lakers wouldn't be contending 2 years later if they lost both Kobe and Gasol to career ending injuries, nor would the Heat if they lost Lebron and Wade.

Dwight Howard isn't going to move Houston up to the top of his list if we switch GM's. No other GM was going to get Lebron, Wade, Bosh or Carmello here. What superstar do you think a different GM would have aquired for the Rockets, and how do you think they would have pulled that trade off? It's fine to say that the praising of Morey as a genius/god/best GM to walk the earth is overblown. But so is blaming Morey for not getting us a superstar when it is extremely unlikely anyone in the world would have done any better.
Click to expand...

Morey, is that you?

SMH............

xtruroyaltyx · Feb 8, 2012

mob16151 said: ↑

Ok small words and bullet points and maybe then you'll understand.

1. The Rockets are 29th in attendance

2.The rockets have the 26th largest arena in the league.

3. Im aware that not every team sells out every game.

4. Are you aware of proportions? IE, if the Rockets half fill the toyota center, and 25 other teams half fill their stadiums..................were going to still rank in the bottom 3rd of the league in attendance.

5. Hence your point about attendance being low.....................is useless.
Click to expand...

Arena size has nothing to do with it.

If every team sold out, then yeah, you'd have a point. Then you couldn't have more attendance than other teams because you simply didn't have the room.

If the Rockets fill their stadium 3/4's of the way and someone else fills their stadium 1/4, even if they have the bigger stadium it doesn't mean that they will have higher attendance numbers.

Not sure what your point is here.

It's not like the Rockets have been hitting capacity and not able to bring more people in.

morpheus133 · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Morey, is that you?

SMH............
Click to expand...

Still waiting for that explanation on how another GM would have a superstar in Houston right now...

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

morpheus133 said: ↑

Still waiting for that explanation on how another GM would have a superstar in Houston right now...
Click to expand...

Oh no you're right, because no other GM in the NBA is fit for his GM job.

Morey is the only guy in the world who could POSSIBLY even try!

Ricksmith · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Oh no you're right, because no other GM in the NBA is fit for his GM job.

Morey is the only guy in the world who could POSSIBLY even try!
Click to expand...

He asked the same question, twice, and all you reply with is sarcasm. If Morey sucks so much, who should replace him (realistic choice) or what would you do if you were our GM? I've asked this question multiple times in the past few months whenever Morey gets bashed, but nobody ever replies. I wonder why?

MadMax · Feb 8, 2012

I do not believe Morey should be fired. I've been super clear on that.

But I also don't believe we can go on forever with status quo and defending it by simply shrugging our shoulders and saying no one could do better. At some point you're judged by what you actually accomplish and not by what you almost accomplished or what you wanted to accomplish but couldn't persuade others to do. Sometimes that's fair and sometimes it's not fair. But pro sports is absolutely a bottom line business.

Again...not saying the man should be fired. Not saying he isn't doing a fine job.

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

RowdyRicky said: ↑

He asked the same question, twice, and all you reply with is sarcasm. If Morey sucks so much, who should replace him (realistic choice) or what would you do if you were our GM? I've asked this question multiple times in the past few months whenever Morey gets bashed, but nobody ever replies. I wonder why?
Click to expand...

 I'm a long way from saying the guy sucks, but to say that no other GM in the world could have gotten the Rockets to the 14th pick 2 years in a row is silly. And it could easily be 3 years in a row in the lottery after this season. Is that special?

If some posters were to see Morey barefooted & walking on water they wouldn't be surprised. It's ridiculous.

Your question is better suited for Mr. Alexander who may start asking himself similar questions if attendance continues as it has this year. Does Les need a better GM or just a "luckier" GM? After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now? That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been. How many years & how many coaches are the questions that Les is going have to answer.

morpheus133 · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Oh no you're right, because no other GM in the NBA is fit for his GM job.

Morey is the only guy in the world who could POSSIBLY even try!
Click to expand...

Who cares if another GM might be able to do the same level of work you want Morey fired for? The question is whether you think another GM would have a superstar here right now after losing Yao and Tracy to injury and why? Or at least why you think another GM would be doing better during that stretch? You seem to be dismissing the fact that the new GM could very easily be much worse. Obviously Morey's inability to get a superstar so far is a big deal, but for him to be fired there should be some reason to think another GM would have had more success after losing 2 superstars to injury.

If you can't think of any reasonable way for ANY gm to get us a superstar during that stretch, then we have to judge him on his other moves. No cap killing contracts. More hits than misses on late round draft picks. No bad trades of any consequence. Excellent at filling in the role players for the team. Put enough talent on the floor that the team barely missed the playoffs despite losing 2 superstars. That doesn't mean every trade or move has been great, it just means that when there has been a trade that hasn't worked out, the Rockets have not been hurt significantly in any way so far. That doesn't mean he deserves a lifetime contract with the team, but before I ask for his job I need to have a good reason to think his replacement will do better, and so far no one provided me with an arguement as to why another GM would.

Superstars leaving mediocre teams in recent history have done so in order to go play with other superstars. We don't have a superstar for them to join up with. Changing GM's won't change that. If a superstar decides to buck that trend then we have the cap space and pieces to attempt a trade. But if the superstar doesn't want to come here that is much more likely to be because we don't have another star already, than because of who is the Rocket's GM.

aeolus13 · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

If some posters were to see Morey barefooted & walking on water they wouldn't be surprised. It's ridiculous.

Your question is better suited for Mr. Alexander who may start asking himself similar questions if attendance continues as it has this year. Does Les need a better GM or just a "luckier" GM? After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now? That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been. How many years & how many coaches are the questions that Les is going have to answer.
Click to expand...

You're still dodging Rowdy Rick's and Morpheus's question: what NBA general managers have done more with less than Morey over the last few years? Which ones have made their teams better with fewer resources at their disposal? I've been asking this question since I joined and not once has a member of the Fire Morey brigade given an answer.

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

aeolus13 said: ↑

You're still dodging Rowdy Rick's and Morpheus's question: what NBA general managers have done more with less than Morey over the last few years? Which ones have made their teams better with fewer resources at their disposal? I've been asking this question since I joined and not once has a member of the Fire Morey brigade given an answer.
Click to expand...

Not satisfied?

How about you answer my question then?

After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now?

(That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been.)

Ricksmith · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Not satisfied?

How about you answer my question then?

After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now?

(That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been.)
Click to expand...

This is essentially Morey's 1st year with things the way he wants them. His coaching staff, a good amount of cap space opening up this summer, and no bloated contracts (possibly Scola, but too early to tell and not a huge contract). I say depending on what he does this summer, 2-3 more years. He wasn't the GM when we had JVG or a healthy Yao/T-Mac.

Now time for you and your fellow Morey haters to answer our question:

If Morey sucks so much, who should replace him (realistic choice) or what would you do if you were our GM?

ashishduh · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Not satisfied?

How about you answer my question then?

After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now?

(That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been.)
Click to expand...

It took the Lakers 5 years to rebuild after Shaq. It's been 0 years in the post-Yao era.

This is why no one takes you people seriously, lol, you know so little about the subject at hand.

aeolus13 · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Not satisfied?

How about you answer my question then?

After all, we're on our third coach after JVG and Rick Adelman. Not exactly chopped liver. A better question is how long do you give a guy to put it together? Three years from now? Five years from now?

(That would make 8 to 10 years before Les decides whether Morey can get it done. That's a long time no matter how "unlucky" a GM has been.)
Click to expand...

I would love to answer your question. I would give a GM (or any employee) as many years as he wants, provided he's performing better than a large majority of his peers. You replace an employee when you have a clear reason to believe that a different employee would produce better results. If deficiency on the part of the employee isn't the problem, you can hire and fire as many as you want, but your problem won't be solved.

I've answered your question, so please answer mine. What NBA GMs have been more successful with fewer resources than Morey has? Who do you think would do a better job if he replaced Morey?

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

ashishduh said: ↑

It took the Lakers 5 years to rebuild after Shaq. It's been 0 years in the post-Yao era.

This is why no one takes you people seriously, lol, you know so little about the subject at hand.
Click to expand...

Like Olajuwon couldn't stop Shawn Kemp?

or

Chuck Hayes is a top 5 NBA center?

Does any of this sound familiar?

They should, these beauties are yours.

durvasa · Feb 8, 2012

I look at the Morey's tenure in 2 phases.

Phase 1 ("Go for the Ring"): There's 06/07 - 08/09, where his goal was to build a championship roster around Yao and McGrady. He wasn't the official GM in 06/07, but he was clearly involved in personnel decisions. In my opinion, he did a pretty good job in Phase 1, but the Rockets had bad luck with injuries. The team looked good on paper each year, and he avoided adding bad contracts which would make it difficult to remake the team if it came to that.

Phase 2 ("Rebuild and Make the Playoffs"): 09/10 was basically the year in which his goal shifted to remaking the roster for the post-Yao / post-McGrady era, with the secondary (and competing) goal of making the playoffs. The strategy of trying to simultaneously rebuild the team and also make the playoffs is very questionable. He hasn't achieved the latter, obviously, and he also hasn't added players with high-upside to the roster. So now, we are stuck in mediocrity limbo, where we're not losing enough to rebuild quickly through the draft, and we're not winning enough or have good enough talent to attract stars to want to play here. I don't necessarily criticize the particular tactical decisions he has made. Given the over-arching strategy, the tactics have been sound, but that hardly matters if the strategy itself is misguided.

Let's say that what the Rockets should have done for Phase 2 is a rebuild in the conventional way (be terrible but accumulate star-level talent via the draft). How long could we have expected a competent GM to get the team back into championship-contender status that way? I think we should expect that it would take more than 3 years. Maybe 5, on average? Alright, if that's the case, and we're currently in year 3 of Phase 2, then perhaps Morey should get another couple years to see if he can get this team to contender status with his strategy. Is that fair?

ashishduh · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Like Olajuwon couldn't stop Shawn Kemp?

or

Chuck Hayes is a top 5 NBA center?

Does any of this sound familiar?

They should, these beauties are yours.
Click to expand...

That was in response to someone saying that Yao couldn't stop Boozer, I was testing reading comprehension and you've now failed the test twice, grats?

Keep dodging the topic at hand though, your lack of reasoning skills is showing.

aeolus13 · Feb 8, 2012

durvasa said: ↑

Let's say that what the Rockets should have done for Phase 2 is a rebuild in the conventional way (be terrible but accumulate star-level talent via the draft). How long could we have expected a competent GM to get the team back into championship-contender status that way? I think we should expect that it would take more than 3 years. Maybe 5, on average? Alright, if that's the case, and we're currently in year 3 of Phase 2, then perhaps Morey should get another couple years to see if he can get this team to contender status with his strategy. Is that fair?
Click to expand...

Completely, if that's the case. However, it's my understanding that Les has instructed the front office to rebuild without tanking, and that Morey would go the OKC route if he could. If so, that's a very different situation.

flamingdts · Feb 8, 2012

TEXNIFICENT said: ↑

Like Olajuwon couldn't stop Shawn Kemp?

or

Chuck Hayes is a top 5 NBA center?

Does any of this sound familiar?

They should, these beauties are yours.
Click to expand...

You're dodging questions better than Neo is at dodging bullets in the Matrix.

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

aeolus13 said: ↑

I would love to answer your question. I would give a GM (or any employee) as many years as he wants, provided he's performing better than a large majority of his peers. You replace an employee when you have a clear reason to believe that a different employee would produce better results. If deficiency on the part of the employee isn't the problem, you can hire and fire as many as you want, but your problem won't be solved.

I've answered your question, so please answer mine. What NBA GMs have been more successful with fewer resources than Morey has? Who do you think would do a better job if he replaced Morey?
Click to expand...

 The funny thing with the Morey cult is, you either think he's a god or you hate the guy. For me, neither is true. I just would like to see a different approach.

Morey should play to his strengths which is the draft. Meaning take your lumps and draft star player. Give up this pipe dream of being "predatory" of a situation & nabbing a superstar that way. He's not going to recruit one in free agency (you have to have one to recruit one these days) so just having cap space alone won't help. Stop discussing players publicly as "assets" (which is true) but is not going to endear your organization to prized NBA free agents & their egos.

I would like to see the Rox stop wasting their time with guys like Scola and Martin. They should be moved for draft choices. You can't win the lottery if you don't play it. Rebuilding should be sold to the fans (many of whom are becoming apathetic anyway) and 30 year old players should not impede the development of younger players. Maybe he should use his cap space the way OKC did, receiving 1st rounders in exchange for hold contracts for teams avoiding the luxury tax. This again would play to his strengths which is draft night. Young role players have value & should be moved for draft picks. (I.E. Courtney Lee, Bud etc....) This would provide ammo for Morey on draft night to get a bigger deal done.

You could call this "tanking" but I call it playing to my strengths. For Morey this draft night. You may lose a few more games but so what. Your attendance isn't the best & you're not really giving you're self a shot at the lottery being last in.

This is not something that probably hasn’t been posted, but the approach I would like see.

TEXNIFICENT · Feb 8, 2012

ashishduh said: ↑

That was in response to someone saying that Yao couldn't stop Boozer, I was testing reading comprehension and you've now failed the test twice, grats?

Keep dodging the topic at hand though, your lack of reasoning skills is showing.
Click to expand...

I don't care what it was in response to, those posts show that you don't know what you're talking about.

You failed the basketball test. LMAO.

Forums

Another Asset Held On to Too Long

TEXNIFICENT Member

xtruroyaltyx Member
Supporting Member

morpheus133 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Ricksmith Member

MadMax Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

morpheus133 Member

aeolus13 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Ricksmith Member

ashishduh Member

aeolus13 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

durvasa Member

ashishduh Member

aeolus13 Member

flamingdts Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Share This Page

About ClutchFans

Rockets Content

Support ClutchFans!

Another Asset Held On to Too Long

TEXNIFICENT Member

xtruroyaltyx Member Supporting Member

morpheus133 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Ricksmith Member

MadMax Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

morpheus133 Member

aeolus13 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Ricksmith Member

ashishduh Member

aeolus13 Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

durvasa Member

ashishduh Member

aeolus13 Member

flamingdts Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

TEXNIFICENT Member

Share This Page

xtruroyaltyx Member
Supporting Member