Man this shortened season is really taking its toll. Big players dropping left and right. The Rockets have been blessed so far to mostly keep guys on the court... that's a big part of why we're 14-11. (Knock on wood.)
It is selfish but not necessarily in a bad way. If you are Kobe and think you are one of the greatest to ever play you are naturally going to go out on your own and test your abilities. People have good things going on in their careers but split off because they want to prove that they can build something on their own. Also, Shaq is the type of personality that will belittle you as a teammate or peer. He does it all the time on TNT with Barkley and Kenny. If you are Kobe it is hard to sit there and have another guy call you his sidekick. I don't know anything about the Magic Kareem relationship but I doubt Kareem was treating and talking about Magic that way.
LOL, Lakers were horrible for a few seasons after the Shaq trade because they didn't have any cap to sign anyone. If they let Kobe, who's a free agent in 2004 offseason go, they'd still have no cap whatsoever. And Shaq was commanding 30M/y new contract at the same time. The prime shaq couldn't win with 3 other all stars in his team, not until Kobe became the closer. A 2005 and beyond Shaq plus a bunch of scrubs wouldn't make playoff at all.
Kobe even had a higher win share in 2001 playoff than Shaq. Not saying that made him more important than Shaq during 3peat, but they are more like 1A and 1B than people wanted to believe. Kobe had a 25/56% performance in 2002 finals, I don't recall a 2nd fiddle that good in last 20 years.
Did you mean to say the prime Shaq couldn't win until he got Phil Jackson as his coach? At least that's what he says in his book....that his mindset wasn't right until he got Phil. Kobe was such an integral part of the 3-peat teams that they wanted to trade him. Shaq carried him, not the other way around.
Shaq's work ethic and attitude cost him his place among the Mount Rushmore of Basketball legends. The divorce among the two elevated Kobe. Choosing Kobe over Shaq was the right choice.
Shaq was 1a Kobe was 1b Shaq needed Kobe more than Kobe needed Shaq. Kobe's still going what has Shaq done before and after playing with Kobe? Not that impressive without Kobe by his side
Over course they did, Shaq was in decline and in his 30s. Now if you want a more fair argument, Kobe at 24-27 vs. Shaq 24-27. For some reason, it seems like people often disregards Shaq's career in Orlando, like Bobby Ewing getting killed on Dallas.
In other words, Shaq was #1, and Kobe was #2. Sorry, but that's simply wrong. Basketball has always been a big man's game, and Kobe has always needed one of the best front courts in the league in order to get to the finals. On the other hand, Shaq has shown that he only needs an all-star wing to get to the finals (Hardaway, Kobe, Wade).
You should go look at Penny's stats in the 95 finals. They were just as good or better than any stats Kobe has ever had in an nba finals. I think Shaq not getting the ring was more about Clyde and Hakeem than a lack of help. IMO Hakeem/Clyde >Kobe/Shaq but I also think Hakeem might be the greatest to ever do it counting Jordan.
You're looking at only the NBA Finals. How about the journey to get there? Game 7 2000 vs POR was pivotal. No Kobe there, SHaq goes home Just because stats were similar means their impact was the same? And who says just because you have a talented froncourt you can win it all? How have the talented frontcourt done without Kobe? Odom is having the worst season of his career in Dallas and Gasol was 0-12 in the Playoffs. He won 0 games as a leading man. There's no denying these guys are talented, it takes more than talent to win it all. Just ask the Heat who were the most talented team in the NBA last year
I suppose you're right. Thank goodness you asked the question. I mean if Shaq had reached the finals playing with someone other than Kobe, then that would be great. What if Shaq had WON a championship without Kobe? But because Shaq did neither of those, clearly Kobe is better. Oh wait - did Shaq do either of those things??
You do realize that Kobe, Wade and Penny are elite shooting guards. A healthy Penny was so good. Kobe is the second best 2 guard of all time and Wade is probably top in the top 5. In his prime Penny and healthy Penny was that caliber of player too. So yes all Shaq needed was hall of fame caliber two guards to get to the finals.
I'm not looking at NBA finals at all. I'm looking at the teams that Shaq has taken to the finals. He's proven that he needs less supporting talent than Kobe does in order to get to the finals. You can't look at Odom and Gasol individually. You have to look at the frontcourt as a whole. That means Gasol + Odom. In any case, without one of the best frontcourts in the league, Kobe wasn't able to get out of the first round.
In the 99-00 season, Shaq led the Lakers to the finals for the first time. That season, Kobe averaged 22.5 ppg, 6.3 rpg, and 5 apg. In the 94-95 season, Hardaway averaged 21 ppg, 4.4 rpg, and 7 apg. Do you really think those are hall-of-fame caliber numbers?
Those are easily hall of fame numbers. Go look at some of the great two guards of all times numbers and you will see lower numbers and most of them were primary scoring options. Clyde Drexler carrer average 20/6/5 Joe Dumars carrer average 16/2/4 Reggie Miller career average 18/3/3
