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Will Lowry ever be a top 6 pg?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by LowrySauce, Feb 4, 2012.

  1. RedNation

    RedNation Member

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    Then we need an effective outlet passer. Can dally/scola do that? I don't know
     
  2. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    That's not true at all, I don't know how you came to that conclusion.
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Yes, of course they can, it is not hard to teach outlet passing, they don't have to be Kevin Love (who is exceptional at it BTW).

    The problem is mostly that Lowry does not present a good target for it...he tries to get the pass around the FT line instead of closer to half court.

    DD
     
  4. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    I didn't say he was. He still helps the team by getting defensive rebounds and converting that into transition opportunities. And that's apart from his getting to balls that would otherwise be rebounded by the other team.
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    He would be getting a lot more transition opportunities and early offense for the team if he released for the outlet pass instead of pounded the boards and let our bigs do their job, both Scola and Dally can board, they don't need Kyle's help.

    DD
     
  6. VBG

    VBG Member

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    I don't think DD has ever seen a non-Rockets game.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Look, all I am saying is that Kyle has strengths and weaknesses.

    Strengths - great in transition and early offense, great at attacking the basket, great at finding an open shooter in rythmn and on time.

    Weaknesses - slow lateral quickness - struggles with quicker PGs, not a great half court player, streaky shot - and does not control the flow of the game well.

    If McHale was as good of a coach as some here think, and the organization was as smart as we know they are, they would be utilizing his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses.

    I know he is some of you guys "Sacred Cow" (looking at you Mr. Clutch, Durv and Sam)....but it is what it is....

    DD
     
  8. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I watch a lot of basketball, too danged much probably.

    :)

    DD
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Oh, and to answer the ops original question - No, Lowry will never be an elite point guard.

    DD
     
  10. RedNation

    RedNation Member

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    He will. ;)
     
  11. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Scola's rebounding is way down this year. And I realize you're itching to find a way to blame that on Lowry, but the unfortunate fact is that Scola simply can't rebound like he used to. Also, Martin is a below average rebounder at SG, and he's more interested in releasing the other way then helping out on rebounds. Lowry is doing what he has to in order to make up for those guys. To suggest that Lowry's defensive rebounding somehow doesn't help or hurts the team really makes no sense to me, sorry.
     
  12. RedNation

    RedNation Member

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    Perhaps paul can teach him a thing or two
     
  13. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    Does Deron Williams get extra wins for being 6'3? I agree with your argument that the only stat that matters is the W-L record, but if you're going to turn that against Lowry then you need to do it against his competition as well.

    Deron Williams and Steve Nash don't deserve a reputation boost because their teams are worse off than the Lowry's. And don't give me any of that crap about the supporting cast. Our supporting cast around Lowry suck too. No way getting around it.

    People here are unjustly bashing Lowry as some sort of stat-hoarder when the reality is that he's doing just as good as job as can be expected from his position, given that he has a below average SF and PF starting alongside him. Offensively his usage rate is lower than every other PG ranked above him in whatever statistical metric you want to use. It could mean that he's not confident about putting up shots given his bad shooting percentage, but it could also mean that he's too unselfish and needs to take the game into his own hands a bit more. Refs aren't helping by giving him no calls, obviously. Defensively, when he lets his man get by him, he is following the defensive gameplan drawn up by McHale. It's obvious that he's intentionally pushing his man to one side to set up a funnel system to get to Dalembert. We didn't do this last year because we didn't have a shotblocker. I am in the boat that Lowry's defense this year has been way above average for that of a PG. He's always on his man when they try to shoot over the top, his help defense on bigs in the middle is phenomenal, and he's an absolute beast with his hands in transition (must have learned that from Chuck Hayes).

    In the end does it make him a top 5 PG? By reputation of course not. But a lot of the names people list above him--Steve Nash, Rubio, Lawson, even Paul to an extent--play zero man defense. They let the highlight reels do the talking, and unfortunately that's how the NBA determines "stars" in this day and age. I can guarantee you he'd be top 5 on JVG's list though. Listening to him on the Knicks Celtics broadcast it was clear he was bashing Melo and Amare for being "stars" in the nominal sense but losers because they failed to bust their asses on the other end of the court.
     
  14. flamingdts

    flamingdts Member

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    Rebounds are not shared, it's based on opportunities. If Lowry doesn't grab a rebound it doesn't automatically mean Scola will get it, in fact it could mean an opposing team picks it up.

    Rebounding is probably Lowry's biggest strength, and you are absolutely taking that away from him. Why is that?
     
  15. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    One of my criticisms was that Lowry was supposed to make others better, however with his increased usage, everyone seems to be having a worse year than last year. I think I prefer the motion offense to the current PG driven one.
     
  16. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    The way he talks about the Rockets players and basketball in general, I doubt he's ever seen a Rockets game either.
     
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  17. RedNation

    RedNation Member

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    The coach has to create effective plays. Mchale can't.
     
  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    People overstated the "motion" offense last year, I think. The Rockets are running a lot of the same stuff. The big difference is I don't see as many backdoor passes from the high post, the major reason being we don't have the personnel on the team to run those sets as effectively.

    And FYI, Martin, Scola, and Budinger (I guess those are the players you are referring to) all score at higher rates (and higher +/-) with Lowry on the floor than with him off the floor.
     
  19. Jonhty

    Jonhty Member

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    tony parker just dropped 42 on westbrook. people forget how good he still is. passing is overrated and tony is still arguably the best scoring pg in the league.
     
  20. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

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    I disagree, very rarely did the offense not start high post initiated last year. This year, its almost all Lowry initiated

    That may be true, but thats more of Lowry vs Dragic, rather than PG system vs Motion system.

    In the past, I was critical of Lowry, because I didn't think his style of play would remain effective in a playoff series type atmosphere because the opposing teams can really hone in on his weaknesses, IE midrange and 3pt shooting. I felt like his play was a little gimmiky. His shooting picked up, and my concerns diminished a little, but now those old thoughts in the back of my head are starting to pop up again.

    Here we are now, where Lowry is struggling, and I have to ask, is he just slumping or has he been scouted?
     

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