Kevin Love says Kobe is the best player in the game

So taking the last shot makes you the better player? Then how are teams built around centers since they aren't routinely closers? Shaq wasn't the best player because his teammates wanted to give Kobe the ball for the last shot?

 

I am never a big fan of PER. But PER is invented by a huge LeBron nuthugger and it has been the biggest argument LeBron nuthuggers can find to prove LeBron's the best player. Too bad those fanbois can't be consistent on this argument either.

 

Shaq doesn't get the ball down the stretch because he's a terrible FT shooter. Plus it takes more time to feed the ball into the post, when the clock is running down it's not an option. Wade and LeBron play interchangeable perimeter positions and I don't see how you can make the comparison. You should check MJ and Pippen instead, and yes, their teammates want to give MJ the ball for the last shot. Or he'd demand it. I don't see that in LeBron.

 

So in other words, for whatever reason, you do recognize how one player can be the best player on the team even if he isn't relied on to take the last shot?

And as far as PER goes, I believe I stated reasons why LeBron is considered the best on his team and arguably the best in basketball and it had nothing to do with PER. Since we both are in agreement that we shouldn't rely on PER I assume you won't try to use it in future "it's Wade's team" arguments? Especially not in response to someone who isn't using it to defend LeBron.

 

Yea, a big man has that flaw because the end of the game becomes an iso game usually. Yet Tim duncan, even hakeem and many of the bigs were still able to make this happen. But yes, part of greatness is that if you had one bucket, you goto the guy who you trust the most, the biggest leader sho can keep his composure in the toughest of moments, not only has lebron time and time disappeared at this moment, but even with his own team and teammmates they look at another ugy that they trust with the ball the most and consider him the their leader....this is not a part of PER, but that is apart of greatness....These are the thigns players talk about time and time again...there is a reason so many, it seems as the majorit of the players, regard kobe as teh greatest, but the majority of fans/espn writers/people watch box scores will stick with lebron . Those guys are on the courtand at battle and know what it takes on oppose to john hollinger who sees basketball through stats only.

 

Did you read what the guy said that I was responding to? Because if you did there is only one real way to take my question based on the way he framed it. He talked about the Cavs not showing up in the playoffs as evidence that Lebron has always had the worst team so in response i discussed the playoff performance of Kobe's teammate last year.

 

Nobody forgot that. However, when put on the biggest stage he didn't perform. A boxer could go 18-0 in his first 18 fights and win by nothing but knockouts against some of the best boxers in his weight class but if he gets a title shot and gets dominated the only thing anybody is going to talk about is fight 19. Nobody is doubting that Lebron is a great player but we are saying that when the belt was up for grabs he took an @$$ whooping.

 

Kevin Love is a little b****. Who cares what he thinks?

 

So who was the best player on the 94 Bulls? Since Phil Jackson didn't want Pippen taking the last shot during a playoff game does that mean Pippen wasn't the backbone of the team? That's basically what you are arguing.

 

I don't think anyone is denying that. HE BLEW IT. But so did Kobe in 04 and 08, and Dirk in 06 and 07. They both rebounded to lead their teams to a title. If LeBron does the same this year then he will have LED his team to a ring faster than those two. And folks will still find a way to discredit him.

 

You are picking out one game, many games for MJ, kobe they pass it out or hit the open man, but they are the playmakers and the guys the team trust to take it. 7/8 out of 10 games, teh teammates count and rely on them to take it...plain and simple....For the heat, its dwade...pippen was the leader of that team...why don't you check the rest of the season, he was the guy with teh ball in his hands 80 percent of the time....so the argument of cherry picking one two games doesn't hold much wait kid.

 

Kobe had bad games, Dirk had bad games, but overall in the series they still played well and were effective. Even MJ had his bad games in the playoffs, sometiems shots don't fall, that will happen in basketball, but what lebron did in the finals(everytime in the finals) was just dumbfounding...here is a stat stuffer and did well in the playoffs even, but on the biggest stage he literally just disappeared and was ineffective in every single way, just became a role player, I've never seen anything like that throughout an entire series.

 

This. Lock thread.

 

I'm not picking out one game. The argument for it being "Wade's team" boils down to Wade being the preferred closer. If that's the logic then stay consistent and apply it to other teams. Phil Jackson felt comfy giving someone besides Pippen the rock during a crucial playoff game. How is that any different than Miami giving Wade the rock in the Finals, since another poster already highlighted the other numerous times last postseason that LeBron "closed"? How is it any different than giving a perimiter player the ball to close over your pivot who is the backbone of your team (see Kobe and Manu)? It's not.

If anything, you are cherrypicking the Finals, a set of 6 games, because prior to that LeBron did plenty of closing that postseason.

 

No, Kobe had a horrible Finals in 04 and 08. It's no different than LeBron having a horrible Finals in 2011. The one difference in Kobe's favor was that he went down shooting, but he still played like garbage. And both resulted to losses to underdog teams, especially 2004. You just excuse his ****ty performances but he played like garbage in both of those Finals, with more bad games than good ones. If LeBron shot under 40% in the 2011 Finals, blew a 20 point lead at home (granted the Heat did do that) and got routed by a Finals record 39 points in the closeout game while he shot 7/22 (31%) you and everyone else would say he played like ****...not that he had "some bad games". If his last 3 games for the Finals were 6/19, 8/21 and 7/22, while blowing a 20 point lead and getting routed by 39 to lose the series you would say he played like ****.

And Dirk was not as horrible in the Finals in 06, but he did the exact same thing LeBron did in the 1st round GS upset of 07 (lethargic, didn't want the ball, own coach calling him out in the media).

It took Kobe 13 seasons before he could up his game enough to lead a team to a title. That includes blowing it and played like utter garbage in 2 Finals before that. It took Dirk 13 seasons as well. This is LeBron's 9th season. He can rebound just like they did.

 

What exactly did I twist? Did it not take Kobe and Dirk 13 seasons to lead their teams to a title? Did Dirk not look as lethargic in the 1st round of 07 vs GS as LeBron looked in the Finals last year? If LeBron had the type of Finals that Kobe had in 04 and 08, would you not say he blew it?

 

As you saw in the post, this was his own teammate Chris bosh saying the whole team feels Wade is the guy they rely on when they need the big plays. That says it all, its not choosing one thing or the other, its saying the views of the teammates and staffs who they feel is the person to rely on when the pressure really cooks up. Thats enough in my opinion. If MJ shot the ball or passed out, his team new the ball was in his hand and he got the attention in the end from the defense, same with Kobe now, adn in 94 Pippen's teammates would say him, etc. Even billups was teh closer and thus the finals MVP for that detroit team which was built with a unique equal spread.

 

I don't want to hear that mess. Lebron has been to two finals and has lost both while not performing all that we well in either one. I am all about saying that Kobe had Shaq and wasn't the league guy for the first three but to give Lebron some credit for leading his team to a ring before him is ridiculous. Kobe played a big role in those first 3 rings. In 2002 he averaged 26/5/5 shooting 51% from the field and 54% from the 3 at the age of 24. That is a great series regardless of whether Shaq was on his team or not.

 

And I'm not disagreeing with that. They feel Wade is the better closer. I get it. So my question to you is since other teams had guys who they gave the ball to for the very same reason that weren't the guys that the teams were built around, are you arguing that it wasn't those guys team either?

No, in 94 Pippens coach said here Kukoc, you close this game. PJ and Pop said hey Kobe and Manu, you close this game. You aren't being consistent.