Patrick Patterson vs. Jordan Hill

i think its most likely PPat played well last season and looked very promising until he started playing again, to be fair to him, an injury differs from each individual, i had an ankle surgery before and its mental, the pain is there but due basketball being a very physical sports, your mind backs away from contacts, especially hard ones. give him some time, cant give up on him so soon.

JHill is a really good player but the biggest problem with him is lack of consistency, i think he had a really good game against Boston last season, if he played like that all the time, he can be a star power forward. we should at least pick up his contract, did we not? i agree, among the 09ers, they should pick up his contract

 

JHill is a 4th big in a quality big man rotation. Patterson is a 3rd big in a quality big man rotation with potential to be a very good starter at PF.

 

What's ur definition of very good starter?He's like a 4th or 5th wheel to me.

 

i think it's just patterson coming off of that ankle surgery. he'll get back in shape but it's going to take a little bit of time. it's obvious that p-pat has much more talent, skill, and potential than jordan hill. also p-pat has a higher iq and is a pretty fierce shot blocker. and he just has a great attitude and is presentable. jordan hill on the other hand has always been inconsistent, is lazy at times or just doesn't react quick enough on defense and offense. patterson just has that killer instinct and jordan hill doesn't. don't get me wrong, i'm not knocking hill completely, we've seen some games where he "dropped that ass" but the question is, who is going to do that night in and night out? my pick is p-pat.

 

This isn't true, he was getting 8.3 rebounds per 36 minutes last season. That's solid. Not great but not bad.

 

Repped Aroundtheworld...

Bottom line is that Patterson is showing he is a below average rebounder with a very limited offensive game and a solid but unspectacular defensive game. People only think he has this amazing upside because of how excited Morey and crew was when they drafted him. He is still young and he will continue to develop but he has a very long way to go. I hope he turns into a beast, but Hill has shown more potential in spite of his flaws. Hill is also setting himself up for a nice contract if he can keep putting up numbers.

 

8.3 is hardly solid for a PF. His rebounding per 48min ranked 47th among PFs in the NBA last year.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/p...lified/false/position/power-forwards/count/41

For comparison, Scola was 30th.

 

He was mostly a garbage man on offense, so he should get more offensive rebounds than most. The more troubling thing is that his defensive rebounding was very poor. But defensive rebounding will improve with experience, I think.

 

I was thinking the same thing at the beginning of the season...PPat just didn't seem to have the same fire I thought he had last season. But over time, I saw that he has been getting that fire back.

You mention that it's 20 games into the season, so that he no longer has an excuse, but you use the full season's worth of games to compare averages and rates for the two guys. How about we look at the past 7 games for both guys and then determine how they compare.

Patterson (last 7 games)
Min: 20.7 / 36
Pts: 8.7 / 15.1
FG%: .588 / .588
Reb: 3.7 / 6.4
Ast: 0.7 / 1.2
Stl: 0.1 / 0.2
Blk: 0.3 / 0.5

Hill (last 7 games)
Min: 13 / 36
Pts: 5.7 / 15.8
FG%: .586 / .586
Reb: 5.6 / 15.5
Ast: 0 / 0
Stl: 0.6 / 1.7
Blk: 0.1 / 0.2

So based on this, they're both scoring at about the same clip. Hill is rebounding out of his mind, while PPat is grabbing boards at a subpar level for a PF. PPat seems to be either a better passer or understands the offense enough to get assists, while Hill hasn't had one assist in those 7 games. Hill is averaging nearly 2 steals a game over the past 7, which is a hustle stat.

What this tells me is that PPat's mind is in the game, but Hill is having the much greater impact physically on the floor. Hill is way out-hustling Patterson at this point. It makes me wonder how PPat's last 7 games compare to all of last season for him.

Patterson (2010-11)
Min: 16.7 / 36
Pts: 6.3 / 13.6
FG%: .558 / .558
Reb: 3.8 / 8.2
Ast: 0.8 / 1.7
Stl: 0.3 / 0.6
Blk: 0.7 / 1.5


Patterson (last 7 games)
Min: 20.7 / 36
Pts: 8.7 / 15.1
FG%: .588 / .588
Reb: 3.7 / 6.4
Ast: 0.7 / 1.2
Stl: 0.1 / 0.2
Blk: 0.3 / 0.5

So based on this, it looks like he's scoring at a slightly improved rate, though 7 games is a small sample size. His rebounding rate is significantly off from last year and his blocks are WAY down. Assists are down slightly, but that could be a system issue.

It looks like even after 20 games, Patterson isn't back to full strength. It seems like maybe 20 games is just an arbritrary number of games you've given him to be fully back from surgery. I'm not sure either of us are qualified to make that judgment.

I'd say once he returns to at least his rates from last year, then we begin to look at whether or not he's making progress from that point onward. Otherwise, it's really just about whether he's back from his injury or not.

However, I think the two big differences shown here between the two players (keep in mind just how shallow an analysis this is based on these few stats and watching games alone) are:

1) Hill is an incredible rebounder and has become a hustle player this season, but still doesn't understand how an offense works.

2) Patterson will probably become a serviceable and efficient PF once he's fully recovered. But right now, he's missing a ton of the athleticism he had last season, before his injury.

So rebounding and offensive awareness are the two traits that separate these guys. Even once Patterson fully recovers, I don't think either should be considered much more valuable than the other. But that's just my opinion.

 

I'm a fan of Jordan Hill and approve of this thread. Most people on this board don't give any love to Jordan Hill, even though this season he has been working hard and hustling. His rebounding has been awesome and his top of the key 15 foot jump shot is getting better. As I've said all along, he is a keeper.
A.K.A Mr Double Double.

Btw: He loves Houston, lives there year round.

 

hill is in there for defense, rebounds, and easy buckets.
early in the season he wasn't getting any of these consistently

patterson is in there for a little bit of d but mostly offense. he wasn't doing particularly well, but we forgave him because of his recent surgery and missed practice time.


2 weeks later and they're both playing pretty phenomenal. pat is hitting that jumper again, but his post moves are not effective at all.
j hill is grabbing boards and some easy buckets around the rim...i would REALLY like for him to stop going back up with it with that bs fall away hook shot when he get an offensive rebound. if you don't have an easy dunk than kick it back out and take another 24 secs to set something up.

still wouldn't mind shipping hill out for kaman, more established and more consistant in years past.

 

This is why.

 

I call PPat Biggie Smalls, because he plays the perimeter game and plays small ball for an alleged big man.

I agree with the OP, JHill has just as much value as PPat if not more.

DD

 

the biggest problem for Jordan Hill since forever has been his defense. He's simply a bad defender. Either he's lazy or simply has absolutely no feel for the game. Either way, he gets caught out of position and gets bullied around.

While Patterson has not done nearly as well this season probably due to injuries, you could tell he knows how to play defense from last year. I can envision him and Dalembert shutting down the paint together. I can't with Hill.

 

47th is very good for a rookie

(key phrase bolded)

 

Hill is averaging 9 pt, 9boards, and 59% shooting since his option was declined. If his option had been picked up, he wouldn't be playing this hard.

 

This is what I'm also worried about.

Seems like J Chill is a contract player...

 

Or is a helluva lot smarter than we thought and wanted to be an unrestricted free agent where he will earn a lot more $$$$ than he would have if his option was picked up.

DD