What EVIDENCE do we have that Morey is doing a great/good job?

I've been called that very thing here on multiple occasions, despite saying I think he needs more time. There is very clearly a group on this board that believe Morey is beyond question and it's coined the whole "In Morey We Trust" meme here. If he does something that seems suspect the response is, "he's just smarter than everyone else." If he can't pull off a trade it's that he's so smart that other GM's are afraid of him. Again, these are real things said here...certainly you've seen that stuff.

 

How recently was that? There may have been a time where that was true. However, I think after 2 1/2 years of putting out a pretty mediocre product, there isn't any where near the same level of zealotry as you keep implying. There are, of course, those who think he's doing a very good job. But if we put a poll out to grade Morey's performance overall, I bet he'd get more B's than A's, and quite a few C's (or worse) too.

 

The Gasol trade thread.

 

Of course, but I think Morey did the right thing there, sometimes you have to take away coaches security blankets, I am not saying Morey is doing a poor job overall, just that he has warts which do not help this team in getting good players.

DD

 

Stop being a hater!

In Morey we trust!

 

Could you be a little more specific in what was said? I just checked, and the word "hater" was used only once in that entire thread of 1 billion posts. And it was directed towards David Stern, not towards anyone who was criticizing Morey.

 

do i really need to? do you think i'm lying?

i don't remember exact words but i absolutely remember a certain poster going off on me about being a Morey hater (not sure if he used that word specifically).

 

I don't think you're lying. Maybe "misremembering".

Honestly, I don't see much backlash against anti-Morey people on here, unless they say something just really dumb and out-of-line. But your criticisms have been very fair and reasonable, even when I disagreed with them.

 

i promise i'm not misremembering.

 

Yeah, there are going to be factions on any board. I don’t think the whole board is Morey fanatics, but the ones that exist are very vocal and annoying about it.

For example I’ve noticed the posters that bash Rudy Gay the most are the Morey fanatics. They don’t like the idea that Morey lost a trade and act all condescending to anyone who thinks Rudy Gay is a good player.

The posters that trash Adelman the most seem to be the Morey fanatics too. It’s possible to praise McHale without tearing down a coach that did a fine job for us. But it seems like the Morey fanatics revel in glee over stupid things like the Rockets beating the T-Wolves (the same T-Wolves that we beat 3 times last season) so that they can make it known that Morey fired our coach for a far superior one.

Same thing with BimaThug getting so upset at DD. DD didn’t personally attack Bima at all, but because he said something about Morey probably not being able to pull off the maneuver most people take as a given, it struck a huge nerve.

For the record, I am overall very happy with Morey as the GM, but if I said something critical, a.ka. "haterish" the Morey fanatics would be all over it.

 

I'll listen to the arguement that Morey should be more guarded in what he says publicly regarding his players being "assets", though I think that is some what over blown by some fans. Superstar players get the max contract allowed and aren't going to be traded as assets anyway, so I don't know why they would spend too much time thinking about such things. If anything the agents may not want their average clients to sign here because the role players aren't getting overpaid by millions. It's a reasonable reason for the agent to dislike Morey, but the free agents who are getting offers they find acceptable financially take the contract and come in and seem happy enough. It's not like the Rockets are the only team that has almost traded someone. You think Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom are singing the praises of Kupchak after the failed trade at the start of the season? They were treated like "assets" too. As were every player for every team who has ever been traded when it wasn't their choice.

If anyone thinks Kupchak or Nelson or any other GM would be getting us Dwight Howard, just because "that is what the do" then I don't know how that person can be reasoned with. It's alot easier to recruit when you have Kobe or Dirk or Hakeem Olajuwon or even a completely healthy Yao, than it is when you have zero all stars, much less superstars on your roster. Besides what Cuban does as an owner is outside the scope of what Morey has the power to do as a GM. Does anyone really think if Morey was GM of the Lakers or Mavericks that all the sudden no super stars would be willing to go to those teams?

I agree that the "Morey is a god/genius/best Gm to ever walk the earth" talk is overblown at times. But the other extreme where people want him fired is equally silly, if not more so. Some fans act like there are all these superstars who would just be begging to come to Houston if there was some other GM here. I haven't ever heard a reasonable explanation as to which star another GM would have aquired or how in the past 2 years since both Yao and Tmac went down though.

 

I think a GM's first job is to build the best team he can. Right now, his priority should be to acquire players who are stars or who can become stars. Once that foundation is in place, then there will be more stability overall in the roster.

I also think that because he's known as a stats guy, that colors people's perception of him and the organization overall. There's this presumption: "Oh, he likes stats? Then he must not have people skills." Based on what? Because he wasn't sold on Aaron Brooks as an all-star? Because he thinks Gasol for Scola+Martin is a good trade? No one questions the Lakers GM's people skills when he was willing to trade away players who helped win championships for him. When other teams do it, that's just the business side of the NBA. When the Rockets do it, that's because the players aren't treated like human beings.

 

I disagree, people question Khan too...

I think until you build a winner everyone will question you, as they should.

DD

 

I will stop being a Morey fan when he starts sucking as a GM

 

The one in which most posters opposed the trade by Morey?

 

OK, good points. I think there are a couple factors contributing to the Morey-fanaticism that you may see in some people, though again I don't think its as prevalent as it once was:

(1) Some fans just want to hang onto hope that the Rockets front office knows what they're doing and things will eventually break their way. They grab onto anything positive that happens, and try to dismiss the negatives. If I'm being totally honest, I sometimes fall in this category. I want it to be the case that the Rockets are doing the right thing.

(2) There's a sort of polarization effect similar to what you see in political discourse. People with originally moderate views will gravitate to perhaps a more extreme position in reaction to the other side, and vice-versa. Even when the reality is that there are valid points on both sides, the need to "win the argument" can make people blind to that.

 

Very good points!

 

I don't think Rudy Gay has anything to do with Morey. I think it has more to do with Battier. Also, Rudy Gay is your classic player who looks good in "traditional" statistical categories but no so good in "advanced" ones. Even on the Memphis boards he is controversial.

As far as McHale, I think that was more about poking fun at the people who were SO SURE McHale was terrible coach and that we were tanking. Also it was about making fun of people who liked what appeared to be Adelman's "pet" players and who make excuses for them.

I think a lot of people opposed Morey's hiring of McHale but have come around to the idea, based on the evidence on the court, that it was a good move. It's not like Morey had a lot of inital support for the hiring.

 

The thing is that perception very key here.

While Morey has done well as a GM in getting the current Rockets players, he has failed in many respects under the public eye. Just as you stated Durvasa that he was brought in as the "Moneyball" of the NBA, the stats guy. And that is how he still appears. In interviews, he is fairly stoic. He may make a joke or something out, but it looks forced and half-hearted. He may not have said things like assets as much as we think he does, but the manner in which he describes players (the tone/body language/etc.) comes off as very corporate, etc. All those things sway perception and color how agents, media, players and fans view a situation, even it their view is false.

Sure, all these people understand that this is a business. Decisions have to made based on winning and cost and everything. But people actually prefer to have that hidden from them rather than put in out in the open, even if they know that is what it actually comes down to. On top that, many people do or do not do are based on perception or gut instead of the their head. What is the famous line: Americans are perfectly okay with having their freedom limited as long as are not being told their freedom is being limited. Same thing.

Honestly, I have no clue if Morey is truly personable and all towards the players and or others. All we see are interviews and second hand reports from other sources. But all of these things are reinforcing the preconceived notions about Morey, and he has put himself in positions or given himself opportunities to change those perceptions. We do not truly know yet, if that has or will come back to haunt him.

 

At times?
So you're saying there are times when statements like that are perfectly reasonable? :grin: