[Chron] No extensions for Thabeet, T-Will, Flynn, Hill

It's not games. It's reality. These guys make big, big money. Lee is restricted. We have the right to match. And not signing him leaves with more cap flexibility this summer. It's real simple.

The reason this team has a chance to improve and to make blockbuster trades when they present themselves is Morey keeps our roster gutted of cap-killing underperforming players. Lee is not an underperformer. But if you give him $30 mill over 4 years, then he becomes an underperformer unless he is starting and is one of the primary scorers.

 

Or someone that you can trade for a better player........

Lowballing teams stay ...well...at the bottom.

DD

 

We are not a lowballing team. Remember Nene?

 

Well, this team isn't near the bottom, they're doggy paddling in the sea of mediocrity. Not flying too high, not flying too low. Now, based on what you're saying the Rockets can forget about tanking for a draft pick because the can lowball their way to a top lottery pick.

 

Here is my thing, what if he performs like christie did once he got 25 mins a night his 4th yr? What is that guy worth. Without looking up the numbers, I remember christie being somewhere around 10ppg 5rebs 4asst and somewhere around 40% from 3pt range. That guy has a lot of value as a backup pg and sg. Now what the team could do is be more versitile in their lineup in the combinations. We don't know because he doesn't play. I say it a lot, young guys need to play. I really would like to see patterson with at least 27 mins a night. The only way that happens is if they move scola. That should happen. We know what scola can do. Right now, he has to trick guys on the block. He's so slow and he's super poor defensively. They should dump his contract for a te for no other reason than to get patterson more time.

 

They do? If they do notice, do they care?

It didn't deter Dalembert, and we apparently would've likely landed Nene too. Please explain how it is clear that players around the league notice that Morey is a meanie.

Regarding Lee, his cap hold for next year is 5.5 million. Given our cap situation, even if we plan to resign him to a Lowry like deal, it might save space to keep him unsigned until we figure out the rest of our plans.

Morey was fully ready to make him the starting 2 this offseason until the Gasol deal went awry. His value to us as a starter vs. backup is probably a bit different, hence it also makes more sense to wait. I still wouldn't be shocked to see Martin moved in a deal, moving Lee into a starter's role.

 

What if he performs like Lowry has since we matched his offer? Sensational value, right? And the market set the price. And if Lowry is still performing at these levels or better in a couple years, what kind of contract do you think he is going to get? That's right, a max deal. And then if Lowry underperforms over the life of that max deal, then you can look at his whole body of work and see that he got paid appropriately for his production. And if Lowry continues to perform at a max level, then he will get one more contract and be overpaid when he is fading away in old age.

It makes a whole lot more sense to operate our cap the way Morey has done it as opposed to passing out poison pills that you can't trade.

 

Players do notice this stuff and the good players see a team loaded with talent at a reasonable price. They know the GM isn't gonna blow the cap up and have them playing alongside role players making $10+ million per year.

The Rockets organization has an excellent reputation amongst players in this league. That is, players with substantial talent that are willing to work hard and earn their bread. And we really don't care what the other players think, the ones that think they are entitled, the Latrell Sprewells of the league.

 

Besides the T-Will trade, which of Morey's moves here have FAILED? Seriously, which ones???

Hill was a throw-in in one of the most successful trades in Rockets history.

Thabeet was part of the PRICE the Rockets had to pay to acquire a first round pick in exchange for a guy who was leaving in seven weeks.

Flynn was part of a swap of non-factor players in a trade that was more centered around the exchanging of draft picks in the Motiejunas trade (which also involved the pick acquired by taking on Thabeet's salary).

Given the play of Kevin Martin, the potential benefits of a mid-first rounder coming from New York this year, and the excitement over Motiejunas (who now looks like a top-10 draft pick talent), it seems to me that all of those moves we're SUCCESSES, not failures.

You need to separate these players' original draft positions (when they were drafted by other teams) from what they were viewed as at the time that the Rockets acquired them.

If you want to rag on Morey for the T-Will trade, have at it. Personally, I still think it was a gamble worth taking and doesn't hamper the team too greatly, especially if the Rockets make the playoffs this season and can get that pick obligation out of the way.

But to rag on him for any of the other moves to acquire those former 2009 lottery picks? Frankly, that's just silly.

Doug Christie is a nice comparison to use with Williams, but the key difference between them is that (from what i saw of him) Christie never had the attitude problems that have weighed Williams down. Christie got minutes by playing great individual and team defense and by being able to get his shots in the flow of the offense without needing to dominate the ball. Guys like that can last a long time in this league.

Williams, however, (1) thinks he's a star, (2) can't comprehend why his team isn't treating him like a star, and (3) obviously doesn't know how to deal with even minor rejection like an adult. Hell, for all we know, Morey has every intention of trying to bring Williams back next season, just for less than the $3.14M he was scheduled to make under their option on his current deal. But what does Williams do? He closes the door on that possibility with an impulsive Twitter rant. (I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say that his emotions just got the best of him and that he'll maybe change his tune once he calms down and gets over this.)

 

Except for Donald Sterling and his Clippers. He proves that if you actually exceed the definition of incompitant, that eventually you will stumble into success. Kind of like digging all the way to China :grin:

 

Bima,
If, for example, the Rockets barely miss the playoffs and finish just inside the lotto (say ...the 14th pick), could we still give that to NJ to satisfy the obligation (assuming there is no one available in that range that the Rockets really want)?

 

Why would we do that? If I have to choose between giving the nets the 14th pick in 2012, or the 20th pick in 2013, why would I ever pick the former?

 

maybe the 2012 draft is shallow after the top 10 while the 2013 draft is deep.

maybe not having the draft obligation hanging over our head gives us much needed flexiblity going into next year.

there's a lot of potential reasons. It's not a dumb question.

 

TWill is apparently clueless on how much damage he has done to his career with his Twitter account, which shows his mentality. His tweets have cost him millions of dollars. And there's absolutely no way that the professionals that surround him, the marketing professionals, his agent, et al. have not informed him of such.

He hasn't listened to his coaches. He hasn't listened to his handlers. Dude won't listen. All he can hear is himself. He will never be a player in the NBA unless this changes. Frankly, at this point, I doubt it happens.

There is absolutely no reason to extend his contract under these circumstances. Morey made the right move.

And I actually wanted to see the guy play and develop.

 

The best way to respond is that it is implausible, though not totally imPossible. One thing to note is that if the rockets fail to make the playoff 4 straight years, we only give the nets a second rounder. Overall, it would seem like a huge risk with little if any benefit even with incredible scouting

 

DD, I dont know if you have noticed this or not, but almost every other NBA team is utilizing RFA the exact same way that Morey has been utilizing it the past three years.

Even Maxed out players like Marc Gasol were allowed to go into RFA. Its the wave of the future to pay market value for your free agents.

If these players have good faith in their agents they should be more than happy to be a RFA. If they dont get the contract they want, then its not the teams fault, its their Agents fault for not marketing their talents well enough accross the league.

I think you and other fans are drawing out way too much sympathy for Rockets players here. Being a RFA isnt a negative thing, unless your Agent sucks.

 

As others have pointed out, this would be a highly implausible scenario, and I doubt that Morey would actively pursue it.

That said, I'll answer the question (which, you're right, is not a dumb one).

The Nets have no obligation to accept a lottery pick from Houston. For instance, if the Nets feel the same way about the 2012 and 2013 drafts as the Rockets do, they may prefer to keep the obligation for 2013.

Of course, teams can amend prior trades by mutual agreement. The Warriors and Nets did that with the Marcus Williams trade a few years back, for instance. If the Rockets and Nets agreed to amend the trade (perhaps with the Rockets getting a future second rounder?), then the league would allow it.

But no, the Rockets cannot unilaterally give the #14 pick to New Jersey.

 

Yeah, I think some do care, and use the Rockets as leverage rather than as a realistic option.

Really? Dalembert was going to resign with Sacremento until they pulled their deal off the table and they had to settle for Morey's lowball offer.

And Nene, there is not one shred of evidence that Nene was going to sign with Houston, just a bunch of Bosh like PR leaks from the Rockets side, you have been around long enough to know that if it is leaks it is probably not true.

Nene signed for more guaranteed money with Denver we got played, again.

I understand the machinations of it, my only point was that players clearly take notice.

Me either, and honestly I would rather have CLee as a starter, look at KMart's numbers they are in decline in the new system of McHales...actually everyone's numbers are down right now.

DD

 

The key is not in how the players that are restricted act, it is how the unrestricted ones feel about their chances of getting an extension later if they sign with Houston.

Now maybe Morey will offer an extension to a great player - if we ever get one, and it is really a heirarchy type of thing (this is what I think)....

I was just pointing out that I believe stuff like this deters free agents from seriously considering Houston.

DD

 

I agree that the Rockets get used as leverage, but I doubt Morey's shrewd negotiating has much to do with this. Free agents aren't breaking down the walls to play here, that won't change until Houston becomes a glamorous media market or acquires some stars, and until then, we will be used as leverage like every other third-tier team. Free agents make their decisions based on the quality of the offer in front of them, not on Morey's reputation as a meanie.

Besides, even if you're right, is this really a problem? I don't see how being perceived as a franchise that hands out fat contracts to underperformers improves our situation a whole lot.