1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Confederate Heroes Day

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Xerobull, Jan 19, 2012.

Tags:
  1. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    9,592
    There are no Confederate heroes. This is like the Germans celebrating Nazi Day.

    Hey, a Nazi analogy that actually works!
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Nazis = Murdering Jews
    Confederate Soldiers = Attempting to leave a country based on differing political views. The Union made it a war.

    What side you were on was decided based upon where you lived. General Lee actually preferred to stay with the Union, but believed in state before country.
     
  3. Jugdish

    Jugdish Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,081
    Likes Received:
    9,592
    Differing political views
     
  4. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,766
    Likes Received:
    9,691
    fixed
     
  5. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    6,180
    Likes Received:
    281
    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/O-dzCt2xeSo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  6. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Yes, because the confederacy was all about lynching black people and the Union was all for not lynching black people.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Hippieloser

    Hippieloser Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    8,272
    Likes Received:
    2,136
    Of course the Confederacy wasn't all about lynching! What a stupid thing to say.

    It was all about slavery. Sheesh.
     
  8. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    48,984
    Likes Received:
    1,445
    I think I've shared this story, but I once parked next to a truck that had a bumper sticker with a confederate flag that read "Worth Fighting For". I wrote a little note and put it on his windshield that said "you did...you lost".
     
  9. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Those differing political views were largely based around the issue of slavery.

    I'm not really sure how the Union made it a war either.

    I do recognize that Lee was in favor of preserving the Union but did not want to fight against his home state of Virginia.
     
    #29 Lil Pun, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
  10. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    Well, at the time expansion of slavery was a political opinion.
     
  11. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    I didn't say they were right. At the time almost nobody openly advocated abolishing slavery. Everybody was a racist. The two biggest icons of the Confederacy actually supported remaining with the Union (Davis & Lee). The soldiers that fought the war, were fighting for their home.

    I might question why there is a separate day for Confederate soldiers (why wouldn't we just have a Civil War day, remembering both). I don't think we should paint somebody with a negative brush, just because of where they lived.
     
  12. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,766
    Likes Received:
    9,691
    BULL ****... Back then that was the only way to paint it... Either you was for or against (speaking of Deep South)... You wanting to honor the Confederacy period, pretty much paints a picture for me... That was a dark period of humanity... Robert E. Lee is no hero of mine... regardless if he only fought for the Confederacy because his heart was in Virginia...That's exactly where they would have found his heart, if I were there at Appotomax...lying in Virginia, between two piles of feces...
     
  13. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,933
    Likes Received:
    30,550
    Growing up in the South, not being racist, and understanding the complicated history of slavery (no doubt a deplorable phenomenon), I'm actually pretty dang offended by this post.

    In the era of the Civil War, the Confederates were brothers and friends of the Union soldiers. They weren't zealots seeking world domination.

    Maybe reverence for the Confederacy "chaps people's asses" but Americans go way too far in demonizing what was once a boiling political/economic clash. This is probably aggravated by the fact that ignorant folks in small towns are the ones who still fly Confederate flags (there's no place for that).

    And hey I'm not even advocating a holiday for it. The Confederacy doesn't deserve to be 'commemorated', but it is an interesting part of our country's history full of interesting lessons to be learned. I fully believe that people who demonize the South as "nazis" dramatically overrate the benevolence of the Union and romanticize the whole war.
     
    #33 napalm06, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2012
    1 person likes this.
  14. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,920
    Likes Received:
    39,925
    There is a lot of ignorance involved in how people remember history. Many confederates did not own slaves (most) and were simply fighting for their homes.

    Still, I don't believe any reverence should be due to the confederate army, its flag or its cause.

    Despite the fact that most confederate soldiers were not evil the way history has painted them and despite the fact that the North was not actually a place full of racial harmonists, I think it is probably best if it can be left as simple as Union=Righteous, South=Evil. Good triumphed over evil. Freedom triumphed over slavery.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 1999
    Messages:
    34,143
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    I don't agree that there were no people open advocating of the abolishing of slavery. There were and even if these people happened to be in the minority, they were there. There were far more people trying to stop the spread of it past where it was already practiced in the USA.

    I also don't agree everybody was a racist but I do believe a large majority of people were. Even Lincoln himself, who has been named one of the greatest presidents of all time by many people and publications, did not believe white people and black people could coexist. He even advocated that they start their own country, I believe somewhere in Central America, after they were freed.

    I agree with the fact that people were basically fighting for their home/state. I mean, aren't there stories out there about fathers fighting sons and brothers fighting each other and so on? And yes, many people did not want secession to happen but couldn't bear fighting against their state.

    The Civil War is hard to follow because a lot of revisionist history has been done to bolster the appearance of both sides.
     
  16. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,623
    Likes Received:
    7,158
    You are free to feel however you want.
     
  17. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,766
    Likes Received:
    9,691
    wrong choice of words??... sarcastic??... If so , read the siggy... IF not, my apologies
     
  18. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    26,933
    Likes Received:
    30,550
    I think you're dead on. But you're agreeing with those of us who don't openly hate the Confederacy - things weren't so "black and white" (pun intended).

    Lincoln is perhaps a poster-child for revisionist history, not to take any of his accomplishments away, other than the overrated opinion people have of his views on race.

    It is impossible for us, given our modern perspectives, to know how we would have felt in that era. All of the good intentions in the world don't guarantee that JavalLon would be rushing away from his family and his way of life to carry a Union flag on the front lines of the war. To say things like that seems immature.
     
  19. javal_lon

    javal_lon Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2010
    Messages:
    11,766
    Likes Received:
    9,691
    It truly is ... But either way, it was a necessary point in US history...I'm grateful to the victors because they didn't have to fight for our cause...
     
  20. justtxyank

    justtxyank Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2005
    Messages:
    42,920
    Likes Received:
    39,925
    It's also hard to understand today because the idea of state pride is sort of a joke today. Even Texas, which probably has more "state pride" than any other state still today doesn't come close to showing what existed back then. People belonged to their state and their state belonged to a union of states.

    Robert E. Lee more than wanted to stay in the Union, he resigned from the army because he didn't want to fight his family in a war. He loved the country and considered himself an American patriot. He fought in the war to defend his home.

    "With all my devotion to the Union and the feeling of loyalty and duty of an American citizen, I have not been able to make up my mind to raise my hand against my relatives, my children, my home. I have therefore resigned my commission in the Army, and save in defense of my native State, with the sincere hope that my poor services may never be needed, I hope I may never be called on to draw my sword....." Lee in a letter to his sister, April 20, 1861
     

Share This Page