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Cons Only: Pick One

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimrocker, Jan 17, 2012.

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Cons: Which one?

  1. Life's most persistent and urgent question is: "What are you doing for others?"

    58.3%
  2. If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.

    41.7%
  1. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    MLK, Jr. or Ayn Rand?

    Can't pick both.

    (Stolen from Digby)
     
  2. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I just read the thread title.

    ....and I thought it was the ballot at the GOP primaries.
     
  3. basso

    basso Member
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    a better question would be "what is the proper role of government?"
     
  4. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Why is that a better question? Both King and Rand were talking about morality, not government.

    Here's some context around Rand's lecture:
    [rquoter]The three values which men held for centuries and which have now collapsed are: mysticism, collectivism, altruism. Mysticism -- as a cultural power -- died at the time of the Renaissance. Collectivism -- as a political ideal -- died in World War II. As to altruism -- it has never been alive. It is the poison of death in the blood of Western civilization, and men survived it only to the extent to which they neither believed nor practiced it. But it has caught up with them -- and that is the killer which they now have to face and to defeat. That is the basic choice they have to make. If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.

    ... Yes, this is an age of moral crisis. ... Your moral code has reached its climax, the blind alley at the end of its course. And if you wish to go on living, what you now need is not to return to morality, but to discover it.

    What is morality? It is a code of values to guide man's choices and actions -- the choices which determine the purpose and the course of his life. It is a code by means of which he judges what is right or wrong, good or evil.

    What is the morality of altruism? The basic principle of altruism is that man has no right to live for his own sake, that service to others is the only justification of his existence, and that self-sacrifice is his highest moral duty, virtue and value.

    Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice -- which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction --- which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as the standard of the good.... [/rquoter]

    http://freedomkeys.com/faithandforce.htm
     
  5. basso

    basso Member
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    rimmy is talking about government, he's just not being upfront about it.
     
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    I'm still shocked that Jacoby tried to pick that ball up and run with it
     
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

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    Seriously, what an idiot. He made me break my Logitech remote.
     
  8. Depressio

    Depressio Member

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    Got some rage issues?
     
  9. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    That is a completely legitimate thing to rage about.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    The problem may be that you distill every question into a political one. Honestly, the way you answer the morality question should have significant implications for one's political philosophy. But, I don't think that implication would mean that just because one picks King's vision over Rand's that you must therefore be liberal in regards to the role of government. To jump to invalidating the question though betrays an insecurity in being able to argue for small government starting from a non-Randian premise. Or, if you really would pick Rand, why not just say so?
     
  11. basso

    basso Member
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    the "cons only" premise gives the game away.
     
  12. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    It doesn't take a genius to see that there is a basic conflict in the worldview of many Conservatives. The individualism advocated by Randians cannot exist in concert with other Conservative/American/Christian foundations. The purpose of the poll is to see where D&D Conservatives stood on that philosophical spectrum. I truly appreciate those that answered honestly. I'm not happy that some chose Rand, but it is hard to fault them for the conviction of their beliefs.

    You on the other hand, have not answered, which I believe gives your game away.
     
  13. basso

    basso Member
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    that you can't capture my moral Weltanschauung with a binary question?
     
  14. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    The folks who don't answer this question are the same people who aren't confident in their ability to rationally defend their positions.

    So, if you just 'believe' something but you don't think you have the logic and rationality to support it to others, you spend a lot of time avoiding any unambiguous statement of your beliefs.
     
  15. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    No, I'm not. Morality is the subject. Is your moral belief system centered around humanity or self?
     
  16. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    There's nothing stopping you from discussing the topic in a post. If the poll is too simplistic, tell us why and let us know your thinking on this topic.
     
  17. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    lmao

    you gotta earn respect, son. You haven't done that

    until then, your silly trap will go ignored
     
  18. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    There's no trap. People's views are what they are and aren't likely to change too much.
     
  19. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I picked Rand, though i don't know if I qualify as a con. I am more a pro-life libertarian and defender of the Constitution. I don't particularly support things like bans on same sex marriage, drug prohibition, prohibitions against prostitution, etc. that are generally conservative ideals.
     
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  20. basso

    basso Member
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    i'm going to steal that, tho i may amend it to agnostic pro-life libertarian.
     

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