Why did Carroll Dawson trade Rudy Gay for Battier???????

Its not hindsight. Everyone called it before hand.

 

Not just Morey... Van Gundy. You know he did not like the idea of bringing on board a 19 year old in need of development.

 

Yep, yep, and yep.

Similar to my thoughts at the time. I thought Rockets could at LEAST tried to get 2nd rounder Alexander Johnson (would ended up being mediocre, but still) or pry away a future 2nd rounder, get a Grizz BENCH guy or SOMETHING.

 

You can believe that all you want. It simply isn't true. I like Chris Bosh. Don't dislike him at all. I'm just realistic. He wouldn't have made us title contenders. Just create enough hope here that we didn't think we needed to rebuild. You aren't winning a title with Chris Bosh as your best player.

 

We got rid of Stromile Swift (I think he had 4 years remaining on his contract).

 

Would you take starting lineup of Bosh+Gasol+Lowry+Lee+Gerald Wallace? In revisionist history, where the Rockets would've been semi-contenders, they could've easily outbid Portland for Wallace. And then they'd be one David Stern prick veto away from the above lineup. Who knows? Maybe Dwight Howard would've been more interested in Houston with Bosh and Lowry being here as our 2 all stars.

You can't just look at moves one at at time.

 

If they managed to accomplish all that, I'd have been very impressed.

 

He had 3 years remaining on his contract at, I think, 6 million per season.

So, if we had not been abel to unload his contract in the Battier deal, we would still be talking about that terrible contract Alexander had given him in the same breath as those he gave Mo Taylor, Moochie, Cato and Rice.

The trade was a good gamble, not just because it acquired a top level role player, but because it got rid of a terrible contract.

 

But that's the thing. You have to take step 1 before step 2 can occur. Without Bosh, the Rockets felt they had no chance anyway, so they didn't want to sacrifice the future for someone like Wallace. And as a result they use their players for the future(Brooks/Battier->Motiejunas) rather than for the present. As a result, no FA-to-be would even take a glance at Houston because currently this is an average/below average team.

Would we have been contenders with Bosh? Probably not him alone. But you have to start with someone before others will come.

 

Okay, so propaganda means when you spread information/ misinformation in order to promote your cause and/or damage an opposing cause. My view is the Rockets were sincerely explaining their rational for the Battier trade.

Your stance is that the trade was inherently bad -- but you don't discuss this point, you assume it and use it as your premise and replace reasoning with the attributing of the word "propaganda" to any contrary reasoning. This is the problem: you want to explain away other points of view as propaganda instead of actually entering into a discussion.

Now, in retrospect the Gay trade was obviously bad -- but that is only in hindsight. Any time you trade away gambling on potential in order to gamble on the present, and then that potential comes through but the present does not, it was obvious, in retrospect, a mistake. The reasoning of the trade given by the Rockets at the time however was completely justified: acquire a defensive minded mature team leader to help round out a contending roster and lead Van Gundy's defense AND get rid of a bad contract for an under-performing Swift who could have caused chemistry issues.

I will readily admit (and did in my first response to you) that the Rockets did a bad job of evaluating Gay (esp. since they had Sefolosha ahead of him on their board). I'll even say I hated the trade when it happened, because I thought Gay was going to be great, and I think developing young players on a winning team really expands their potential.

My main beef was that you are not discussing whether the trade was good at the time or not, you are assuming it wasn't, dismissing counter-arguments, and making critical conclusions without analysis.

 

Even in hindsight the trade is only bad because Yao and T-Mac broke down. If they hadn't, the Battier trade would've been a no doubt success.

The Rockets with Battier achieved the following.

2008: A 55-win season without Yao for the last 20(?) games or so. They would've been in contention for a 2 or 3 seed with him healthy. And probably a 2nd round berth if not WCF.
2009: A 52-win season despite T-Mac can of quit. A player that defended both Brandon Roy(who was single covered and wasn't able to distribute as much) and then Kobe Bryant. The Rockets eventually lose because they couldn't match with the Lakers frontcourt. But on the perimeter Kobe was contained because Battier was available.

In the same two years of Rudy Gay
2008: Plus/Minus of -8 with Memphis. Meaning the team gave up 8 more points per 48 minute with him than without him. That's not just bad. That was utter, pure crap. And while Gay shot a good eFG% of 50%, his opponent shot 53%. So he was giving up more than he was making.
2009: Plus/Minus of -7. Yeah! Memphis only lost 7 points per 48 minutes with him than without him. He shot a little worse, 49%, while still giving up 53% to his opponent.

If Yao and T-Mac were healthy in Rudy Gay's 2nd and 3rd year, Rudy Gay would've very likely cost the Rockets 1 or 2 rounds of playoffs, if not a championship. He wasn't just bad back then on D. He was atrocious on D. Imagine having to play T-Mac at SG full time and Rudy Gay guard SF full time. JVG would've probably quit the team before the Rockets let him go.

 

I don't know how many different way to explain it to you. It was a bad trade because you don't trade top ten picks for role players...ever. That's why it was an inherently bad move to begin with..not in hindsight.

Role players are readily available through minor transactions. The examples are countless.

Other than this trade, however, can you find me ONE example of a role player being traded for a top ten pick...ever?

For example, the Celtics gave their top ten pick for Ray Allen - one of the best shooters of all time.

Moving the MLE contract was not significant either, as I said earlier, because MLE contracts are easy to move.

Thus, any way you look at it, the move reeks of incompetence.

 

^ Your point would have some validity if Rudy Gay were any good, however Roy was the only true franchise player in that draft and he was gone.

Gay then or Gay now (thats what she said) really only makes us worse.

 

Looking at Rudy Gay now, and seeing how successful the Grizzlies were last year without him, are there STILL actually people who don't think this was a good deal???

The Rockets did GREAT trading Gay for Battier.

 

I wouldn't trade Martin OR Scola for Gay, either. Martin has been pretty garbage so far this year, but we know he can score just as well as Gay, and Gay isn't much better of a defender, and he commands more money and is a ball-stopper.

Like I said in my last post, he doesn't seem to have any appreciable effect on the game for the Grizzlies.

 

This. Battier replaced him last year, and the Grizzlies didn't even skip a beat. Old man Battier left the Grizz, and look at them now.

Old man Battier: still clowning Gay in 2012.

 

Rudy Gay has been exposed as a net negative to a team.

How are people still blind to this?

 

Reading through this thread, I must agree.

 

So lets pretend Rudy Gay stays with the Rockets. Who plays perimeter defense? Who guards the best player on the other team? How does Gay develop with T Mac and Yao taking majority of the shots? Rudy Gay was an extremely raw talent and he is a ball stopper. Can you imagine if he chucked shots instead of passing to our proven superstar players? Do y'all remember who the coach was at the time, and how he feels about playing rookies? And to the guy that said MLE contracts are easy to move, give me an example of a complete bust getting paid over 5 million per year for multiple years is easy to move.