I think we are failing at trying to win. We wouldn't of signed dally if we weren't trying to win and les wouldn't of said all the things he did if we were gonna tank. He would of kept quiet while we lost. In the end we'll probably get something around the 13th pick with a failed run at the playoffs, unless a trade comes a long for the better or worse.
Of course its #3 but with shades of #1. Look the ultimate goal is for one or more of the young guys to step up and do some great things to get the Rockets to the next level, which would be a playoff team. - Case in point - Nick Young - This is what happens to your young talent when your team just absolutely stinks and you have young players that put up big numbers but the team overall doesnt win games. There were ZERO teams interested in giving big money to Young this offseason and making him a major part of their starting lineup. The Rockets MUST develop young talent AND WIN. Thats the only way to ensure value in young players. If the Rockets just up and stink the first half of the season, and nobody on the roster steps up, then I could see maybe Scola getting traded by the deadline for young talent or picks. Martin on the other hand, would be hard to see not being kept till the trading deadline next season, when his value should be at a premium. Pure tanking, or #2, is so out of the question that its obnoxious to even think that they would try to lose games on purpose. It makes no sense at all and destroys any value in the franchise.
With the very strong draft annonced, it's the good year to tank. The sacrifice of one year could give us lots of benefice for years.
I agree that number 3 is closest, but I think the trade has caused major chemistry issues between some player and the coaching staff/org, as to whether they buy in, and losing all these games in a blowout fashion is not going to get them buying in any time soon. I mean it would be one thing if the team was close to winning some of these, but they just aren't, and someone like Luis who understands the game as much as anyone gets put at the CENTER position in games and it constantly doesn't work, it probably makes them have serious doubts about the competency of the coaching staff that they might believe doesn't want them anyway. DD
It's time to move Scola. He is a role player for a contender. Not a guy to be on a team going nowhere. Let the young guys play - they are the future.
we need to trade them to a contender that has a lottery pick from a bad team. don't get a contender's own pick. it is not an asset.
That would be ideal but maybe a tad unrealistic, so I would settle for trading him for a future number 1 a few years down the road and hope they suck by then. DD
The coaching thing is probably a discussion for another thread but- You go small to push the ball in transition to wear out the other teams bigs, and they arent even doing that. They are going small and walking the ball up the court.... OK... I dont understand that and some other coaching moves as well, but I have said all along that moving on from Adelman was the right move, its just that McHale has been a dissapointment SO FAR on the defensive end, which is where he sold himself to Houston. However, McHale still has another month or two to prove himself. I have no doubt that Sampson, Finch, and Bickerstaff know how to coach at the NBA level very well. At some point the assistant coaches will find a way to make up for McHale's shortcomings if he really does have major ones... hopefully. As for the player/coach chemistry, Id have to disagree with that. The plays they are running are very, very basic. Those are the same sets that I ran when I played in high school. However, its the defensive end that looks High School Level as well. Very, Very bad so far. This offensive system is not the most pretty type of offense like Adelman's corner sets, but you can get 90 to 100 points most nights out of it. But players like Martin and Budinger are going to have to get used to going out of their comfort zone to score points. Thats not the coaches fault, its just the system they are running on offense. The Defense, however, has to fall back on the coaches ability to get the players on board.
We're trying to win, but half of our players seems like they don't give a f**k right now or they're just tired from this rushed season
Agree 100%. They wouldn't have signed Dalembert if they were going to intentionally tank. I have wanted #1 as well for some time. Im all about the ping pong balls and having a crack at picking up a franchise piece like Andre Drummond or Anthony Davis. Im tired of the mediocrity. David Stern gave the rockets a sweet opening to borderline( intentionally) tank this season after he turned down the 3 way trade last year. If I had my way Thabeet would be starting or getting big minutes and I would have moved Scola and Martin somehow and not have signed Dalembert. Rebuild. I'll make the call that this current team in the end is going to be fighting for a playoff spot and may end up getting it. New coach staff ect. This team is going to win some games, but it won't get them any closer to a championship like they could potentially get through rebuilding from the draft.
DD, I'm a little surprised at you - lately you've been quite the voice of reason and this doesn't sound like you. There've been a lot of good posts over the last few weeks about our opening schedule (sorry, I haven't the search ability yet and there's far too many threads/posts to go wading through to try to find them at this moment). Good posts, too, about how the team as it is constructed isn't a championship caliber team...and how most of the teams we were playing in our opening schedule were championship (or at least playoff) caliber teams - and the fact that we were expecting mostly losses in our opening games, but more wins a little later on. Reasons for our recent losses: *We haven't a superstar player, we haven't several all star players (Lowry, God love him, is nearly there but not quite...and we need more than one of players like him, obviously) and we need some combination of the above to be a much better than average team. That's the way the NBA is constructed, sad to say....I personally enjoyed the hard working blue collar guys of the last few seasons, the team play, but it evidently doesn't go far enough to get us anyplace. *We had the lockout with no real practices- which yes, the other teams also experienced - but with a brand new coach with a very different system and plays for them to learn, plus some newer players in the mix....these game losses just really aren't that unexpected considering this alone. *Our team has serious expectations/hopes of competing for this year's championship with the Gasol trade / Nene signing that was shot down by Stern. We're having to retool on the fly here..... *We lost our best defender in Chuck Hayes, who I believe we had intentions of re-signing (see the massive thread about the Gasol/Nene block by Stern). Our guys are having to learn to take up the slack left with his departure...and it evidently ain't easy. We Ain't Tanking (on purpose): I think signing Dalembert is a sign that we as a team still want to win, and aren't tanking. Playing our best players significant minutes in a game packed short season - particularly these first few strenuous back to backs - shows that we're not losing on purpose. He can be our starter for now (after he gets into shape) and, if we can get a better center via trade/FA/even the draft, be our quite serviceable backup....or be let go after this season if not. Am I disappointed in what I've seen in the last week? Am I disgusted by the play that I have seen (or more to the point, haven't seen) on the floor by our guys? You better believe it......but I believe that we have a good number of winnable games coming up, and soon. We've also got the upcoming trades to at least look forward to in the not too distant future; there's hope there that Morey may be able to pull something interesting out of his hat then. We've got one more game that I feel pretty sure we're going to lose - that's tonight's game 2 against the Clippers - then a somewhat easier schedule, hopefully one in which Lowry makes a rapid reappearance and therefore better play/performance/chance for wins for the Rockets. Let's hang in there and see what the upcoming trades, the free agency and the draft bring us and meanwhile...enjoy the season while we have it. It's going to get better, I feel sure of it.
Perhaps I'm out of line here, but I'd say it was a coaching fault if he's not adjusting some plays to his player's strengths (re: offense). If your high scorer is Martin, you run plays to make sure he gets a number of good looks...if one of your higher scorers is Budinger, same there. Not just good looks, but the style of play that suits them and their ability to make the maximum amount of points. Not saying that some of this hasn't happened (ie Martin's been given the ball but bricked it up, a la the Magics game), but the offense doesn't look like much this year, IMO. I genuinely don't know enough about defense and coaching to comment one way or the other right now.
We're not tanking, but they are simply better teams out there, especially in the West. Even the bad teams, I think have better young talent than we do. Sacramento and Minnesota are teams we could beat, but at the same time in regards to overall progression. Those teams could improve more down the stretch than we could, and have brighter looking future at times, if the management holds the stability there. One thing that is hurting (and will hurt even more down the stretch) us is the lack of dynamic talent and size. We do not have the muscle up front to compete with the top 8 to 10 Western Conference teams. I hate using the word "system" player, sort of like a system QB, but Kevin Martin is probably the closest thing to being such a system player -- shooting guard. His offense, like others have said is not imposing or even aggressive, while he does not necessarily create his own shot or make plays for others, in the way Kobe Bryant or Monta Ellis does. What aggravates our scenario, even more is he's not in Rick Adelman's system, anymore, which his talent is much more suited for in a motion-offense. To add more to that point with last the few Rocket teams, Martin was even more at home, since we had more good defenders around him, such as Battier, Lowry, and even Hayes. Could defender the wings of other teams who were either too quick or powerful for him. Lastly, the team did show vote of confidence in him last season, and during the offseason, yet tried to trade him. That's business, though it is kind of backstabbing and slimy, especially if he were not aware about it, before it popped on news blogs and ESPN. This current roster and system exposes all of his weaknesses, where he cannot defend to save his life, while most of the players around him are not any better, except Lowry and Lee (Dalembert is not getting minutes, yet). Though to his strongest attribute, he needs that time, cutting, and constant passing from other players to get into his hot spots to score efficiently. Lowry and Scola are fine. Everyone else is a question mark, understandably. For the most part, I'm not really looking for any of them to stand out alot, because they are all serviceable players, but they aren't future all-stars or even career starters, maybe.
I see #1 is happening. Dalembert is not a part of the plan. He's more like a mentor setting examples for JHill and Thabeet. Veteran show young players how to play D. With that short contract is very reasonable.
As long as Flynn is on the team we are tanking IMO. We will NEVER win with him on the team and getting mins. Sadly he takes up a spot that could go to someone with promise (ie Greg Smith) BUT I hope he gets more and more playing time as the season goes on. We NEED a new start and playing Flynn will take us there. Flynn + playing time = a better draft pick PLAY Flynn more
If you think we are tanking on purpose, then take this roster and come up with a rotation that makes sense for winning. I've played around with the names on this roster over and over and nothing works. That's why McHale's rotations are so random and unset. These pieces don't fit together. Too many repetitive players with the same skills, strengths, and weaknesses only to different varying degrees. For instance: Kevin Martin and Chase Budinger.....same player, one player has more usage, but otherwise their games mimick one another, good offense, good shooters, ineffective defenders. Morris and Parsons....same players, both bigger SFs, can shoot it, rookies with no experience, know how to play the game, have to get experience Hill and Dally.....same players, both dumb as a sack of doorknobs, can't pass, can't shoot, no offense, same attitude, Dally's the better defender by far but they both give you the same thing with a lot of mediocrity Dragic and Lee......similar size, similar skill sets, decent defenders, decent shooters, questionable decision makers, both bench players that would look a lot better playing with a superstar or two, neither one capable of being much else besides a complementary bench player without playing with a superstar. Lowry and Flynn....same players point guards, one good, one terrible. Scola and Patterson......Patterson is Scola without the low post moves and more athleticism for defensive potential. TWill.....the only incomparable one on the roster. A bigger athletic SG/combo guard with mediocre shooting, wants to be a playmaker but is too anxious/inexperienced/or dumb to throw catchable passes and decides to pass when he's got wide open layups and dunks staring him in the face. Now, you tell me how to put these guys together to make a balanced starting unit that has scoring and defense and a good bench that can pick up the pace, force the action, run the break, and keep the momentum flowing in an efficient manner. You can't do it.
He will be more difficult to move. Probably not until next season when his contract is up. The problem is that the Rockets are afraid of being a 15-win team for a year or so. It's obvious they think they can get back to being a contender through adding free agents and trades. I think the issue might be that Morey hasn't embraced the idea that players and coaches are more than stat lines. That Basketball isn't as stat oriented as Baseball. Not resigning Adelman was confusing to me. He is clearly a superior coach to McHale. Why McHale? No diss on him, but not the coach I would pick to build a contender. If I were trying to build a contender, I would not get rid of Adelman. McHale would be the one I'd pick to keep players happy while I went through a rebuilding process. Very bizarre. It's almost as if they aren't sure what they are doing and trying to straddle the fence a bit. Whatever it might be, at some point the Rockets brass has to realize that this team is stuck in no man's land - and has been since the Yao-Mac era came to an end. I wish we'd wipe the team of salary commitments, play young players, let them lose, stock up on draft picks and just keep playing the draft until we hit one budding superstar. Then you plan to make a big free agent splash. With all the cap room and a star to lure them in - that's how you do it. Or trade the plethora of young talent you have accumulated for an unhappy superstar in other markets. I don't think Pau Gasol would have been the right cornerstone to build the franchise around.
Pau wasn't going to be the cornerstone. Lowry/Nene/Pau was going to be our core with guys like Patterson, Morris, Parsons, Lee, around them.
