Wade made first team in 09 and 10 and didn't make it last year only because the league was in love with Rose and because Kobe was pretty much guaranteed a spot as long as he was stepping on the court every night. Wade was the best guard in basketball during the regular season. Wade finished 3rd and 5th in MVP voting prior to Lebron showing up. As I said before 5 is just a number I picked but since Jordan retired the league has been dominated by about 5 players or less which shows that the top 5 players are normally the ones that win. Unless it's clear that their are two SGs way better than any pg the league will typically put a pg on first team. However, Wade was first team the two years before Lebron showed up. Wade is a much better player than Rose at this point in his career. When it came playoff time Rose struggled quite a bit to score efficiently. Plenty of people do. You have lots of people on this board and other places saying he is the closest thing to Jordan since he has left. Wade has a better all around game than Durant or Howard and is the person with end of the ball at the end of Heat games now. I'm not arguing that Jordan didn't have help. Jordan had more than enough help. You put Kobe or Hakeem in a situation like that and they end up with 4-6 rings too. Those Bulls teams were great. My argument is that the Heat is probably the most top heavy team of all time and all of the players are young and in their prime. It is something the league has never seen before and they should dominate in an expanded league. Why didn't he make all nba first or 2nd team that year then if he was so good? Why didn't he make it until his 4th year if he was one of the best players in the league? You can't make that argument both ways to make yourself look right. Nobody is winning without all star level help except the great Hakeem. Go look through everything I've said and tell me where I said top 2 players at their position. I can save you the time and tell you that you won't find it. I only said make the top two play different positions. It's top 5 players period and not top at their position. If that was the case I wouldn't have argued against Pippen because he was the best sf in the league for a while. I wasn't counting the old Celtics at all. That league was so much smaller than the one we have right now. If you are counting them they are easily the best team in comparison to talent. As far as the Bulls go if you aren't counting Jordan being so much greater than everyone else outside of Hakeem imo there were other teams with comparable talent back then. The Jazz had Malone and Stockton and a solid supporting cast. The Sonics had Payton/Kemp etc and so on. In 02 the Spurs still had Duncan and Robinson. If you are saying the Lakers and Celtics had a lot of talent over the past few years then you are just making my argument for me. As far as the Celtics having four all stars that was almost a joke with how weak the east was last year and they had four reserve all stars and that isn't even because the fans cheated them out of a starting spot. In the west those 4 don't all make the all star team. I stand by my most talented in comparison to competition statement because the league was as weak as it has been in a long time. You had some young up and coming teams with the Thunder and the Bulls but they weren't there yet and then you had aging teams like the Lakers and Celtics while the Heat were all young and in their prime. The only player in his prime on the Lakers and Celtics is Pau and that guy just quit last year. Yeah my main point is that they should have won easily and if they don't win it all this year nobody should ever mention Lebron as a top 10 player unless they end up winning 5-6.
Kill yourself quickly, moron, before you accidentally slip and fall into some girl stupid enough to spread her legs for you. We don't need this type of genetic material reproducing.
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gmoney411 There is plenty out there to support Wade being worse than LeBron, Howard, Durant, Rose, CP3 and Dirk. He is not a sure-fire top 5 player. But either way, I keep asking you what is your point of setting this top 5 player criteria? Again, this seems to be an example of trying to fit your argument around some perceived set of "facts". The 1996 Bulls had more talent on it than the 2011 Heat, period. The 1992 Bulls had more talent on it than the 2011 Heat, period. The 2011 Heat are also not the most talented team that has not captured a title. I'm 100% positive if you took LeBron off the Heat they would not almost make the WCF's, like the Bulls almost did without Jordan in the East. If you truly believe that the 2011 Heat had more talent than any other team in history relative to it's competition that year then you must not have watched basketball before 2011. You also must not have seen any games involving the 2011 Lakers or 2011 Celtics (with 4 All-Stars), since both teams had just as much talent as the 2011 Heat. The NBA is a basketball league with 12 man rosters, where you have to put 5 players on the court. This isn't NBA Jamz or a 3-3 competition. And if you don't think Magic was one of the games top players immediately then I find it quite strange that: - No player, outside of Bird, has come close to the numbers he put up once he entered the league. We are talking about a 3 decade timespan by the way. - The main reason the NBA went from tape delay to live TV was because of him and Bird. - He won the Finals MVP twice in his 1st 3 seasons, and I believe he was injured in his 2nd season. The last time a player came into the league with that type of success (Duncan), he was immediately considered one of the best in the game as well. I'm going to go out on a limb and say if you come into the league putting up numbers no one has dropped since (3 decades later), starting leading your team to titles immediately (yes he led them in Game 6 of 1980) and significantly changed league ratings...then yes you are considered one of the top players in basketball.
I'm not buying CP3 being better than Wade last yr. CP3 had one of the worst years he has had in a while and was not the same player he use to be. CP3 was a better player pre injury but I'm convinced he can play at that level anymore. As far as Rose goes I already explained why I thought Wade was the better player. The other 4 I am fine putting above him but I could argue against them all. I agree with the 90s Bulls teams having more talent as a whole than the 2011 Heat. The 2011 Lakers were done before the playoffs even started. They finished the season weak and then couldn't keep up with the Mavs come playoff time. However, if you put prime Kobe, Artest and Fisher on that team I might agree that they had just as much talent as the Heat. The Celtics were also too old outside of Rondo to be considered a great team. Once again if you put them in their primes then I agree the talent levels are the same but that wasn't the case Why did you completely ignore the NBA all first team thing? You constantly use it to discount Wade's skills put refuse to answer why it isn't relevant to Magic. I find it quite strange that you can change your measurements for best player depending on what side you are arguing for.
Wade vs Celtics and Mavs in the playoffs last year was so amazing. So ridiculously amazing. I would take Wade over Rose everyday of the week.
LOL, Bynum were injured in both years and averaged like 7&5 in those 2 playoff runs, you are making yourself a joke here. Bynum obviously improved last year, and the lakers frontcourt was beaten up by Dirk/Chandler alone. Bynum was garbage in those 2 championships. Gasol was only half-decent in creating his own shots. They can't even make top 50 front court of all time by this alone.
Wade had a much better playoff than LBJ overall, just by numbers alone. If Wade doesn't deserve top 5 spot, neither did LBJ.
Because other evidence suggests Magic was a top 5 player, such as: - him winning 2 NBA Finals MVP's in his 1st 3 seasons - him arguably having the best Finals closeout game in history in his rookie season when the league MVP couldn't play - him winning both of these awards and rings over DR. J in both of those Finals, even though you claim Doc was better - him putting up numbers that no one else has put up since, 3 decades later, including being 0.6 assists away from averaging a triple double in the playoffs of his rookie season - him changing how the league is viewed and fans interest level in it I highlighted the league teams to show how many other dudes you were including Wade above. I feel 100% safe saying Hakeem is one of the top 5 centers of all-time because if I ask any fan anywhere, I'm sure the majority will include him in that list. The same goes for Magic if I ask fans, GM's or other players that saw the 79/80 season if they think he was a better player than Gervin, Westphal, Dennis Johnson or others you would say are top 5 players (outside of Cap, Moses, Doc and Bird). I'm sure the Sixers would say he was a top 5 player since he kicked their butt in 2 Finals. I feel 100% safe saying if we were to ask the same for Wade the majority would not think he were a better player than the dudes I have mentioned off the top of my head. Now the question for you is why are you completely ignoring my question about this top 5 fascination? Do you not realize you have to start 5 players and rosters have 12 players on it? Do you not realize the 08 Celtics had more talent on it than the 11 Heat? You are overrating the talent on that roster based on 3 players and underrating the talent on other teams. Just because the Lakers played lethargic last postseason doesn't mean the team wasn't one of the most talented in basketball. That's like me saying the Heat weren't talented in the Finals because LeBron became passive. Talented players can play like garbage.
Right, so garbage that you don't win the title without him (see 08). I didn't realize you had to be a top 5 frontcourt all-time to be one of the top frontcourts from the 2011 season. After the 09 and 10 Finals Lakers fans were comparing Gasol and Bynum to the greatest PF's and C's, and combos of all-time but now they suck? Right....
08 Celtics > 11 Heat. That's pretty clear. Even though 11 Heat would have the two best players in the series IMO.
Last year's loss/embarrassment has definitely helped Lebron. The guy, in his first 3 games, has appeared more skilled than EVER. Outside of the fastbreaks where he can show off his ridiculous athleticism, he's scoring with his post game, mid-range, and pull-ups. Obviously, he can still penetrate with the best of them. Lebron IS going to get better as is post game becomes more refined (it looks great already), and he continues to hone on his mid-range more and more. But clearly, LBJ needs to regain the clutchness he got v Bulls/Celts, and be more consistent with it.
I didn't ignore it. I said I thought Wade could be argued for top 3 but most people would consider him top 5. Also there are five players on the court at all times and a lot of people argue top 5 for things instead of top 6, 7 8 etc. If you want to pick top something else go ahead because I don't think it will change my argument that much with Bosh factored in. My argument is centered a lot more around the league not being good right now. The 08 Celtics had a Lakers team with Kobe in his prime to compete against and I don't think Allen or Pierce is comparable to Wade. On top of that they are evidence that a team with so much talent at the top should win it all and they did in their first year. What happens with the Lakers is what happens with old teams. Happened with the Spurs last year too. You put Kobe and Artest in their prime together on that team and they don't lose and the same goes for the Spurs with Duncan. Yes talent players play like garbage but old players break down too.
No, Lakers fans didn't do that. It's you Lebron nuthuggers kept saying that to downplay Kobe's achievement, everybody can smell that a mile away. In any sense, Gasol+Bynum combined numbers can't even top Shaq/TD etc. in his prime. Never mind they got those numbers by getting assisted easy baskets while the attention's on Kobe. And somehow that's greatest front court of all time. If you want to bet, I can list at least 10 front combo*years that win finals and have better stats. You are a joke and keep coming back. You can tell a lie 100 times and you'll believe in it. But that only makes you a bigger joke.
^^^^^^^^ Please show me where anyone said the Bynum/Gasol frontline was one of the best of all time? And are you saying there are no threads on LG proclaiming Gasol or Bynum to be among the best at their positions, for those respective seasons and even all time (for Gasol and them as a duo)? Cuz it would be very easy to prove who is a liar and a joke as far as thats concerned.
Yes, FOR THAT SEASON. Even you have more common sense than to think someone was referring to all-time.
