Seriously? Well I have to applaud to the effort they put in, its respectful, but its totally, totally on the wrong track. Like you said they are studying hard to find out the true meanings AS A BELIEVER. Which means they are already sold on the idea of a creator then they read the book that support the idea to find out....wait, what are they trying to find out?
Even if you're a suicide bomber, gay basher, whatever, you still have a right to believe what you believe, it's just that you should be penalized for doing those things regardless of what you believe. That's what the nature of secular authority should be.
QFT. I have to do this around my grandparents and other family members often, aside from my immediate family.
or, maybe that's how god set up his train set If it's that part you're dubious about, there are some who theorize that any time you have a big bang, the fractal equation would be the same, and you would end up at this same point at this same same time, every time. Pointless but in the realm of unlimited possibilities.
It depends if they are saying whether they "know" (gnostic atheists) or not (agnostic atheists). But of course, none of us "know" whether we admit it or not... ...we don't bother calling every theist who says "there is a god" a gnostic-theist, so there's really no point adding "gnostic" in front of anything. None of us have certainty over the issue, but some of us are more intellectually honest about it and willing to admit agnosticism.
Good point. Unfortunately, we aren't able to penalize suicide bombers since they're already dead... so we need to punish the planning or 'belief' that it is okay to do such a thing beforehand (as long as there is evidence to build a case on), no?
And this is the part I hate religion the most, it's such an easy way out of your trouble...at least mentally. A rapist might end up in Heaven simply because he's a believer, but I'm going straight down there because I don't believe in him even though Ive never committed any crime.
Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I am swamped with work Except you are looking at a very narrow view of an omnipotent being that only cares about good people. Why would our standards of good or bad apply to an omnipotent being? For that matter an omnipotent being would have a much different perspective than we do. For instance perhaps letting those good people die is its way of population control for humans or perhaps an omnipotent being through pestilence is helping out microbes. Finding out where matter in the universe came from though isn't the same as proving an omnipotent being that created the universe. Such a being by nature would exist outside of the universe while we are bound to our POV inside the universe. This is the basic problem of a scientific proof, or disproof, of God(s) that there is no way to get a verifiable negative conclusion. As far as every question as an answer I find that interesting from a scientific view as the Heisenberg principle states that there are things that cannot be answered. You cannot know the exact velocity and location of anything below the molecular level and since we are all made of atoms technically we can't know the exact velocity and location of any thing. Chaos theory also states that there are certain systems that are inherently unpredictable. Leaving that digression aside as I said before religion and science are not the same and it is a mistake to apply the reasoning of one to the other. I bring this up frequently in regard to things like Evolution vs. Intelligent Design but it works in reverse also. To me though my view of religious people isn't determined by that they believe in God(s) but how that belief shapes how they live their lives. For example I don't have the same beliefs as Rhester but from first hand experience his beliefs help to make him a better person. If that is the case then I don't see the problem with it.
I dont think the poll has anything to do with left or right leaning. There are a number of possibilities as to why the poll results came out the way they did. Generally speaking, most people have negative views about the way organized religion operates, seeing it as a domineering entity. It also doesnt help that 4 of the 5 options were negative, with the only positive one being 'Good' (people are reticent to identify any group as inherently 'good'...at least I certainly am). An anecdotal observation I've made on this forum is that religion threads tend to get a tremendous amount of input from Atheists and very little participation from theists. As a theist, I tire of the annoyingly protracted debates on God and religion and can only guess that other theists/religionists/(and likely other agnostics/atheists/unaffiliated) feel the same way. Just an opinion.
So you weren't talking about science? What were you contrasting religion to then? Why can't people believe in a god(s) and still believe in science? I don't see them as mutually exclusive and would even state that it is our rationality that drives us to have faith. As thinking beings who question the nature of existence we will ask questions that can not be answered scientifically as they are beyond empirical proof. As thinking beings if we can't find the answers we provide them and if we are talking neuroscience there is evidence that our minds require some level of faith. As I said to Donny what matters to me is how does your faith shape your life. I agree faith is very very dangerous and is responsible for the many atrocities in the world. At the same time though faith has motivated many people to become better and do better things. So if someone helps to build houses for disaster victims what does it matter if they believe that is what Jesus would want them to do. To me it comes down to actions rather than beliefs. If your dragon changes it's mind I will be happy to design a mega church in its name for reasonable commission.
"There can't be a practical reason for believing what isn't true. It's impossible. Either it is true or it isn't. If it's true, then you should believe it. If it isn't, you shouldn't. And if you can't find out whether it's true or it isn't, then you should suspend judgement." -Sir Bertrand Russell, Philosopher and Nobel Laureate in Literature
Oh sir, people can make themselves believe all kinds of things to avoid pain and in self-preservation.
We need to fix the source first. Suicide bombing is directly correlated to poor education and poverty for example. As fickle as it sounds, the clerics themselves nor the rich people are blowing themselves up. In any case, I totally agree that the act of recruiting people for suicide bombing deserves the harshest of penalties. I don't care what they believe. Frankly, my concern would dramatically diminish if other people or property is not involved. The belief that committing suicide is considered okay doesn't really factor into this for me. The belief that suicide bombing is a viable weapon in war is not something I like, but in war I find that there's no real moral compass so I guess you can expect anything. Now, suicide bombing to kill innocent civilians - that's what we need to crack down on, and it starts with the clerics. They are sanctioning this. There is literally no suicide bomber who goes through with suicide bombing before a cleric has "approved" it. These clerics should be executed IMO. At the end of the day, cracking down on this can only be a short term tool. The only way to solve the core of this problem is to improve education, give the people right to self-determination, and help them build a viable economy where the clerics and their friends are not the only ones with the carrots.
