"As an atheist, having a Christian threaten me with hell is like having a hippy threaten to punch me in my aura." -Josh Thomas, Comedian
When the sun explodes, you'll be technically correct. Every particle of matter that ever existed on our planet will be scorched to a cinder.
..sure..if you consistantly read scripture out of context and confuse people obeying mans laws with people obeying Gods laws. Matthew 5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you Luke 6:27 What lies at the heart of all of God's commandments? The command to love others and to love God. Jesus taught that this summed up all of the law. Matthew 7:12 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, I've noticed that people with outspoken beliefs tend to hand out with others of outspoken beliefs, despite having opposing views. Sounds like your hanging out with the wrong "Christians". Or, could it be that you don't like it when someone else has a differing opinion and you go on the defensive? I'm sure I probably talk about faith more than many people, due to my career, but most the people I meet wouldn't be so quick to judge or look down on you for your beliefs - I do think your confusing the minority with the majority. Again, I think you may be talking to the wrong people - Try talking to someone who is into apologetics if you want good solid answers. Faith is a feeling, but without a solid knowledge and understanding of the bible, a well-meaning Christian can do more damage than good. Most churches are barely surviving monetarily, yet they do a LOT of good work in the community. Most pastors in this country hold a second job in order to pay the bills, and some (admittingly not most, but some) like Joel Osteen, don't even take a salary from the church- but rather gain their income from other ventures. But even Lakewood has done a LOT of missions work all across the globe from as far back as I remember (I went there for a few years in the 80s). I know small churches with part time Preachers that work together to put food on the poor in their area, and pay the electric bill for an out of work congregation member. I like Einstein too.. "Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is the same as that of the religious fanatics, and it springs from the same source . . . They are creatures who can't hear the music of the spheres." - Albert Einstein Einstein was in fact a Diest - he believed in a creator, not in the same way I do, but a creator in deed. "In the view of such harmony in the cosmos which I, with my limited human mind, am able to recognise, there are yet people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support for such views." (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, p. 214) Ok, your entitled to your opinion, but this is a rather blanketed statement - just keep in mind that religions have done a LOT of good in this world. With the exception of the US Government, Most of the Charity that comes from the US has come from Religious Organizations. And by Charity, I mean not just money, but actions to help the wellbeing of others. Hope you find some more endearing people to discuss religion with next time it comes up in conversation. Noone should chastise you for your beliefs.
Why not? If you believe in something ridiculously stupid, or even worse, something very harmful or dangerous, why should you be immune to criticism?
Agreed, although I dont think Christians are any more stereotyped by unsavory factions within their midst than other groups are. Muslims are often marginalized and stereotyped as a result of militant minorities. Perception of Jews is often conflated with views on Israel or Israeli politicians. Statistically speaking, Atheists are amongst the least liked people, and I'm sure the minority, highly visible, overtly antagonistic towards religion Atheists impact the way broader society perceives Atheists everywhere.
I only returned to atheism a year ago (I was an atheist when I was born, but that was quickly overruled by what I was taught to accept as truth, of course). When people would quote the ridiculousness of the Old Testament, I always took comfort in saying "Yeah, but that was done away with at the cross" (Colossians 2:14-17). But here's why I don't think that argument holds up. Even if "God" did away with such nonsense at the cross, why did he implement it in the first place? Even if these moral laws aren't to be followed TODAY, they should have NEVER been considered permittable by an all-loving, perfect entity. One of the more extreme examples is Deuteronomy 22:28-29: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives." To me, I cannot understand how somebody can both believe in a God of love while also believing in the Bible. I have heard too many friends ignore some awfully disturbing things in the Old Testament by saying "yeah, but if you focus on the overall story it is all okay". To me, it is cherry picking the good and overlooking the bad. It doesn't matter how sweet this entity has become in ones mind, if that person believes in the Bible then they also believe that a perfect God allowed and advocated total nonsense. They believe in a God who murdered or commanded the killings of innocent people. Who is to say that God killed innocent people? The Bible says so… and while I understand the issues of this unreliable text and certainly don’t understand it to be divinely inspired, it doesn’t give good enough reasons for God killing people. Everything that the text seems to state implies that God killed an enormous amount of innocent people. Here are a few instances: In Exodus 12:29-30 he killed all the firstborn children of the Egyptians. Okay, so even if we submit that the Egyptians were bad, what did a firstborn baby child do to deserve death? In Numbers 25:3-4 God was jealous that some Israelites turned away from Him and worshipped other gods, so he told Moses to decapitate them. Were these people deserving of death? Millions of people today switch their religions, some flip-flopping back and forth. God was clearly not interested in people’s personal journey to find or define Him back then. If you think they deserved to be decapitated, then you are saying that I deserve to be decapitated today for my disbelief… I Samuel 15:2-3 says: “This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[a] all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’” I hope you don’t need an explanation of how this is an immoral act, but I’ll give one anyways. Surely not every Amalekite was responsible for whatever happened to the Israelites as they came up from Egypt. Instead of punishing those responsible, which an all-knowing God could have done, He instead chose to slaughter every man, woman, child, infant, and useful animal. This is the equivalent of murdering every German in response to Hitler’s attrocities or slaughtering everybody connected to the Taliban for 9/11. Absolutely sickening… In Numbers 31:16-18, Moses – who was claiming to speak for God – commands the murder of approximately 100,000 young males and 68,000 helpless women. He also declares the Israelites can take the virgin women to “keep alive for yourselves”. Keep in mind that the Midianites did not reside in an area that was regarded as a natural enemy of Israel at the time. Midian presented no threat to God’s chosen people. In fact, Moses himself had lived in Midian as a fugitive after committing his first murder. Should I go on? Isaiah 13:15-16 (rape and slaughter for being in a different tribe), Deuteronomy 2:34 and 3:6-7 (slaughter of innocents), Ezekiel 9:5-6 (slaying of women, old, and children for not accepting Yahweh), Joshua 6:21 (merciless destruction), and many more. Of course there are many other instances of God killing tons of people for reasons which are unclear and perhaps more debatable. But I thought I’d just point out the more obvious cases where the people are surely didn’t deserve to be punished by this lovely guy in the sky. God’s killings in the Bible are the social equivalent today of… Exodus 12:29-30 – Somebody killing a child because the parents deserved to go to jail. Numbers 25:3-4 – A man killing an ex-girlfriend because she started dating another man. 1 Samuel 15:2-3 – A woman who was raped decides to kill the rapist along with the rapists entire family including children and pets. Numbers 31:16-18 – Genocide. Etc… The God of the Bible might be considered to be a nice guy today, but the stories of Him in the past are unacceptable. This is not a moral compass. This is not a picture of perfection... and these stories are not taken "out of context". Thankfully, the New Testament writers seemed to have different political goals than those of the Old Testament writers - goals of unity rather than demolition... but just because people start acting better doesn't mean that "religion" is a good thing. We can all work towards love and harmony without saying that "god requires it". In fact, I think it would be far more genuine if we acted good without an underlying belief that we need to convince others to accept our invisible friend. Anyways - I don't believe god exists, so perhaps this is overkill. Like others have said, I respect people's right to believe something (and thankfully most choose to ignore the bad in their holy book and only act on the good), but it doesn't mean I respect the belief itself.
Deuteronomy is filled with the old law specifically mentioned and talked about by Paul after Christ's resurrection. If read in the entire context of the bible, you will see that Christ was sent specifically to release the world from the old laws, so that we may all live under Grace. Romans 7:6 But now, by dying to what bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. We are to live by the spirit (holy spirit) and when Jesus Died for our sins he also released us from the law. Quoting Deuteronomy without quoting Romans is like using the 18th amendment to prove that alcohol is currently prohibited in this country. You'd be ignoring the 21st amendment that repealed the 18th one.
I'm specifically speaking to Akim523 about his atheism - noone should chastise him for being an Athiest.
In what context, or under what kind of circumstances that it is morally correct to execute someone simply because shes not virgin? Shall I quote more? Churches Ive come across never had the problem you described. Einstein was wrong about the definition of atheism/being atheist. It's not a religion, its simply a disbelief towards religious claims. As an atheist myself Im open to the idea of the existence of a deity, all you have to do is back up your claim with solid evidences and proofs that meet modern standards. Then you quoted him wrong. “A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, our perceptions of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which only in their most primitive forms are accessible to our minds – it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute true religiosity; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man. I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves.” According to major religons hes going straight to hell by saying that. Yes he's an atheist for not believing in any of the organized religions. Yes hes religious in his own way And they have done just as much of bad.
That's all fine and dandy for us today... but keep in mind that "God" was totally cool with these laws at one point in time (before Jesus). Sure, Christianity 'fixed' that error by making Jesus remove the bad stuff... but that doesn't mean that God is good. Pretend you are living before the time of Christ - he hasn't come yet and all the laws are in place. Now ask yourself, is god just? He requires non-virgin wives to be executed, he wants people to be stoned if they are found working on the Sabbath, and he says that if a woman is raped she must marry her rapist... isn't this the least bit disturbing? Saying "Romans fixes it" is true for us today - but it does not excuse the imperfections of this supposedly perfect supernatural entity. It's like going to an elementary school and beating up (or killing) any kid who doesn't pay attention during class - and after a bunch of beatings you say "ya know what guys, I'm going to go home and kill my son so you don't need to get beat up anymore... you cool with that?!" Totally ridiculous. If God is real, then he could have made any rule he wanted. The wages of sin did not need to be death - ever. Not our death and not Jesus' death. But your view of God said it was necessary even though it was not.
Do you believe the events of Romans transpired because God realized the law was stupid and ineffective and that it was a mistake for him to create it in the first place?
