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Are Evangelical Christians Less Loyal Americans than Muslim Americans

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Dec 2, 2011.

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  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Here is a troubling poll which shows that Christians, particularly evangelicals view their primary loyalty to their religion and not our country.

    Do we need the states to pass laws stating that the supreme law of the land is the Constitution and not the Bible
    **********

    Salon / By David Sirota

    If you have the stomach to listen to enough right-wing talk radio, or troll enough right-wing websites, you inevitably come upon fear-mongering about the Unassimilated Muslim. Essentially, this caricature suggests that Muslims in America are more loyal to their religion than to the United States, that such allegedly traitorous loyalties prove that Muslims refuse to assimilate into our nation and that Muslims are therefore a national security threat.

    Earlier this year, a Gallup poll illustrated just how apocryphal this story really is. It found that Muslim Americans are one of the most — if not the single most — loyal religious group to the United States. Now, comes the flip side from the Pew Research Center’s stunning findings about other religious groups in America (emphasis mine):



    American Christians are more likely than their Western European counterparts to think of themselves first in terms of their religion rather than their nationality; 46 percent of Christians in the U.S. see themselves primarily as Christians and the same number consider themselves Americans first. In contrast, majorities of Christians in France (90 percent), Germany (70 percent), Britain (63 percent) and Spain (53 percent) identify primarily with their nationality rather than their religion. Among Christians in the U.S., white evangelicals are especially inclined to identify first with their faith; 70 percent in this group see themselves first as Christians rather than as Americans, while 22 percent say they are primarily American.



    If, as Islamophobes argue, refusing to assimilate is defined as expressing loyalty to a religion before loyalty to country, then this data suggests it is evangelical Christians who are very resistant to assimilation. And yet, few would cite these findings to argue that Christians pose a serious threat to America’s national security. Why the double standard?

    Because Christianity is seen as the dominant culture in America — indeed, Christianity and America are often portrayed as being nearly synonymous, meaning expressing loyalty to the former is seen as the equivalent to expressing loyalty to the latter. In this view, there is no such thing as separation between the Christian church and the American state — and every other culture and religion is expected to assimilate to Christianity. To do otherwise is to be accused of waging a “War on Christmas” — or worse, to be accused of being a disloyal to America and therefore a national security threat.

    Of course, a genuinely pluralistic America is one where — regardless of the religion in question — we see no conflict between loyalties to a religion and loyalties to country. In this ideal America, those who identify as Muslims first are no more or less “un-American” than Christians who do the same (personally, this is the way I see things).

    But if our politics and culture are going to continue to make extrapolative judgments about citizens’ patriotic loyalties based on their religious affiliations, then such judgments should at least be universal — and not so obviously selective or brazenly xenophobic.

    http://www.alternet.org/story/15325...tians_are_more_"un-american"_than_us_muslims/
     
    #1 glynch, Dec 2, 2011
  2. MoonDogg

    MoonDogg Member

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    [​IMG]
     
    #2 MoonDogg, Dec 2, 2011
  3. Pole

    Pole Houston Rockets--Tilman Fertitta's latest mess.

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    BOTL.
     
    #3 Pole, Dec 2, 2011
  4. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    One thing should be obvious.

    The more favorable towards "Religion X" a country's government is, the more loyal followers of "Religion X" are likely to be to that country.

    America was founded as a secular nation, and is still, at its core, secular in its laws and governing. At least it tries to be. And you'll notice very plainly the amount of distrust and disdain religious people show towards the government when it acts in a secular manner.

    But at the end of the day, no matter how much loyalty followers of "Religion X" have to their country, the supernatural trumps all. After all, in some religions, the greatest thing that could ever happen is the rapture. Literally the end of the world. How much loyalty do you think it engenders to your country (or to the planet, for that matter) if that is your endgame?
     
    #4 DonnyMost, Dec 2, 2011
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  5. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    Loyalty to the state is a foolish mistake.
     
    #5 Johndoe804, Dec 2, 2011
  6. Johndoe804

    Johndoe804 Member

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    I don't think this is troubling at all. I don't identify myself by the government that supposedly represents me. And I'm not a Christian, either.
     
    #6 Johndoe804, Dec 2, 2011
  7. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    I concur.

    I remember there being an uproar when a poll said more Muslims identified as Muslims primarily, and American secondary. Which makes sense, considering Islam preaches that the bond between muslims transcends ethnicity and nationhood, and also the very concept of what the question is saying. The god, whom you believe created you, controls the unvierse, and determines your fate? Or a loose collective of people with a similar flag?
     
    #7 da_juice, Dec 2, 2011
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  8. Beck

    Beck Member

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    I think Christianity actually calls people to put their relationship with God first, so this is logical.
     
    #8 Beck, Dec 2, 2011
  9. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    It is true, which after all is why we exterminated the Christians before we sealed ourselves off 400 years ago because they felt their loyalties to God trumped that to the shogun.

    And I guess I'll have to agree with glynch for once, I don't like it. At all. And it definitely shows that Christian fundamentalism is something which we have to be seriously concerned about just like we are about Muslim fanaticism. It would be nice if we could adopt a policy closer to France as regards to religion, as they do a wonderful job in promoting loyalty to the nation as opposed to some imaginary being.
     
    #9 Kojirou, Dec 2, 2011
  10. SacTown

    SacTown Member

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    Most christians are not good people which is why they are christians. They realize they are flawed and they go to church. The church is a hospital full of sinners. So yes, I'd say most christians are less loyal, sin more, and are worse americans than non-christians in general.
     
    #10 SacTown, Dec 2, 2011
  11. bnb

    bnb Member

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    I'm more concerned about these jingoistic Euros.

    Do we really want 70% of Germans pledging their allegiance to the fatherland???
     
    #11 bnb, Dec 2, 2011
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I agree with this, though I don't see it in the sinister light you paint it. The claims made by the major religions are such that it would be illogical to identify first with your country if you really believed what the religion preaches. I don't think that's a bad thing. In fact, I would much prefer it to a bunch of flag-waving nationalists.
     
    #12 JuanValdez, Dec 2, 2011
  13. AbbasNasib

    AbbasNasib Member

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    Exterminate? What are you saying?

    Why must we speak so poorly of others and their belief systems? It's ignorant and proves nothing.

    Good luck to you both on your journeys.
     
    #13 AbbasNasib, Dec 2, 2011
  14. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Being an "American" is not about whom the President is, or the government, it is WHAT we are, our culture, family, values...etc.

    I find this very troubling...
     
    #14 Nook, Dec 2, 2011
  15. Kojirou

    Kojirou Member

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    #15 Kojirou, Dec 2, 2011
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