Remember game 1 vs the Spurs in 95? I think Robert Horry made 1 field goal. It was the game winner, I don't care that Dennis Rodman is 10x better rebounder than him. Horry was a hero. It's about heroes!
I heard VY is a pretty nice guy in real life. I have friend who worked with him on several charity events. And to me, punching an OU fan when he's dissing UT, is a forgivable offense. :grin:
No, we wouldn't....I can't think of any of the UH fans on this board who are also Texans fans who would want the Texans to take anything more than a mid to late round flyer on Case as a back-up. We also didn't make excuses for the fact Andre Ware and David Klingler were rather crappy, anemic pro quarterbacks. It appears to be only the Texas fans who put on the burnt orange glasses and say that Vince is a great quarterback despite the ridiculous amounts of evidence to the contrary. I think I once heard a UT grad admit after a total meltdown that he is "a little immature" but otherwise ya'll think he walks on water.
I do think he needs another start or two to get a better sense of where he is, so if Vick is back, you're probably right. But there are some bad and desperate teams in the NFL - I could see one of them making Vince a stopgap QB for a year. Arizona, Seattle, Cleveland if they decide McCoy is not the guy, KC depending on Cassel's status, and Redskins are all potential landing spots. But more starts would definitely be helpful in evaluating where he is. But really, I don't think performance is the reason people wouldn't sign Vince. He's proven the ability to play from the pocket at an above average level, and he has shown the ability to play phenomenally well late in games and find ways to win taking over situations where the team wasn't winning. He's perfectly fine when on the field. The real issue with Vince is what's going on in his head. If he's liable to implode, that's a risk most coaches don't want to take.
VY did develop. His 98 QB rating was evidence of the fact. His 30-17 record evidence. His record number of comebacks evidence. VY turned around a fluttering Titans teams not once, but twice. And he was the only change both times. 0-3 to 9-7 and 0-6 to what, 8-8. The same team that was beat 59-0. VY was the only reason the Titans won any games, just look at their D before him, and then after. It was only any good when he was qb. And then, oh lookee, same story in Philly. Andre Ware never got a fair shot. Wayne Fontes didn't trust anyone to go more than two or three games at QB before pulling the switch. He never had a chance to Develop in the NFL in my opinion. Klingler did stink it up though.
Yeah, I agree. I think he's shown he can make enough of the throws to be an NFL starter, plus he has the scrambling and clutch ability. Though I think the mental part affects his on the field performance. You can't completely separate them. There were rumors that he didn't know the Eagle's playbook that well.
I know last year in Tennessee they truncated the playbook to two reads per play. He didn't have the full progression that Kerry Collins had. That was one of the major sources of friction.
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I visited the Titans board to get their feel of the Titans in the divisional race. And by accident saw this thread. http://www.gotitans.com/goForum/showthread.php?t=76934 One thing's for sure. VY is a divider and not a uniter. :grin:
I guess kerry collins couldn't make those reads either. Do you know the last two years in ten he had the worst D in the entire league yet he was still 6 or 7 games over 500. Without him the titans were like 10 games below 500. With him the offense averaged 6 more points per game.
Kerry Collins was a broken down old man without 1/10th of the natiral talent of Vince Young. But Jeff Fisher still started him instead.of.VY. I would like to hear your explanatiom of how that happens. In your mind is Fisher a secret KKK member or something?
http://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2011/11/22/2581006/ranaan-review-just-how-good-was-vince-young The numbers for Vince Young in his first start in over a year were unspectacular. He was 23-of-36 passing for 258 yards, two touchdowns and three interceptions. More A.J. Feeleyish in this offense than Donovan McNabb. But there were two Vince Youngs to evaluate. The first was the one that couldn't get on the same page with Riley Cooper or complete a swing pass in the first half. The second was the one who perfectly read the blitz, quickly located his hot reads and shredded the Giants in the second half. Young finished 15-of-18 for 169 yards with a touchdown and interception in the second half alone. And the interception was more a product of Cooper losing the ball than a bad decision. Even more impressive, he ended the Eagles' fourth-quarter nightmares with an 18-play, 80-yard game-winning drive where there were six third-down conversions. Five of those were via Young, four via the pass. (Shockingly, Ronnie Brown converted the other.) So I went back and examined those five Young third-down conversions. And they were even more impressive than I originally thought Here's what I saw upon further review: Star-divide Play 1: 3rd and 10 from PHI 33 With 9:30 left to play, this didn't seem like much but a nice conversion at the time. Little did we know, it was the start of something special. The Giants rushed four and Young, on third and long, had all day to throw. He looked to DeSean Jackson deep down the left sideline, then tight end Brent Celek running an intermediate route on the same side. With nothing there, Young went to the next progression, Cooper, who was isolated on the right side and running across the middle. He drilled it between the linebacker and corner, hitting Cooper between the numbers for a professional first down. Play 2: 3rd-and-3 from NYG 42 This might have been the best play Young made on the drive. Clay Harbor went in motion, creating a three-receiver set to Young's right. The Giants came with a blitz, rushing six, including middle linebacker Mark Herzlich right up the middle. Herzlich came charging untouched and Ronnie Brown tried to step in front of Young at the last second to make the block. But Herzlich leaped and was just inches in front of the quarterback's face. Young still managed to sidearm the ball around him out wide to an open Harbor in the flat. Young was taken to the turf on the play, but still managed to move the chains. It was a tremendous little third-down play and throw. Play 3: 3rd-and-1 from NYG 27 Andy Reid called for the QB sneak. Young appeared to get stopped behind the line but picked up the first down with a great second push. You can clearly see his legs never stop moving despite his momentum being stuffed. It was a great effort. Play 4: 3rd-and-4 from NYG 23 On this play, the Giants rushed six, blitzing off both edges. With the Eagles outmanned 6 vs. 5, the blindside rusher was unblocked. But Young recognized Giants cornerback Corey Webster coming from the slot on the right side, and quickly hit Jackson in the flat for 10 yards and another first down. It was the perfect quick read. Play 5: 3rd-and-8 from NYG 8 This was the game-winner. And on this third down, the Eagles faced their nemesis, the red zone. The Giants covered with a zone defense. Herzlich was lined up on the stronside, near tight end Brent Celek. As Herzlich moved a touch to his left to bump Celek off his route, it opened a slim, one-second window to Cooper running a crossing pattern in the back of the end zone from the slot. Young drilled it in there without hesitation for the score and the Eagles win. Forget about the slow start. And the three interceptions. These five plays alone made Young's start successful and impressive.
It might be funnier and make sense if my user name was Ottoman. Nice attempt to avoid answering the question, though. Is anybody willing to make a.cogent explanation of why Jeff Fisher chose to start the old, broken down Kerry Collins over VY?
God, I'm so glad Clutch doesn't let us put pictures in our sigs. That forum looks horrendous. Giant animated GIFs everywhere...
Not really sure, but he was mostly wrong when he started Collins by choice. 1st year: Collins went 0-4; Vince took over as a rookie and finished 8-4, I believe. 2nd year: Vince plays the whole year; they make the playoffs (9-7). 3rd year: Vince got injured in game one, Collins didn't lose in his first several starts so they stuck with him and had a great year (13-3). 4th year: Collins starts team 0-6. Vince replaces him and finishes the season 8-2. 5th year: Vince is starter until he gets hurt and goes 4-4; Collins comes in and finishes the season 2-6. The only year the Collins' led team outperformed Vince was year 3, and he only got in due to injury. When Fisher had the choice on who to start and picked Collins (Yrs 1 & 4), he failed miserably. So who knows what the reason was - it seemed pretty personal based on their comments about each other - but it certainly didn't seem to work out very well for them.
