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Deficit Supercommittee

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Major, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    That's been the great dilema throughout human history, you have the upper elite running the show and the rest of us suffering when they screw up.

    We've tried unregulated free market, that doesn't work.

    We've tried regulated free market, that doesn't work.

    We've tried Communism, totalitarianism, communitarianism, facism, anarchism, barbarianism, -every ism in the book, none of them have worked.

    And as we're seeing now, democracy isn't getting the job done either.

    What we need is an uncorruptable institution, that can watch over and make sure that those who win and those who lose are in their position by their own doings, not that everyone suceeds, but that everyone has the opprtunity to.

    I don't ever see an institution like that forming, because, to be frank, it's impossible to create.
     
  2. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    Fair points.
     
  3. Hightop

    Hightop Member

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    RON PAUL MAKES STATEMENT ON SUPER COMMITTEE

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r_5YNGAsTc0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


    “This shows how unserious politicians are about our very serious debt problems”

    LAKE JACKSON, Texas – 2012 Republican Presidential candidate Ron Paul released a statement today regarding the congressional Super Committee’s failure to meet its goal with the deadline fast approaching. See below for statement.

    “This week marks the deadline for the so-called congressional Super Committee to meet its goal of cutting a laughably small amount of federal spending over the next decade. In fact the Committee merely needs to cut about $120 billion annually from the federal budget over the next 10 years to meet its modest goals, but even this paltry amount has produced hand-wringing and hysteria on Capitol Hill. This is only cutting proposed increases. It has nothing to do with actually cutting anything. This shows how unserious politicians are about our very serious debt problems.

    “To be fair, however, in one sense members of the Super Committee face an impossible task. They must, in effect, cut government spending without first addressing the role of government in our society. They must continue to insist the federal government can provide Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits in the future as promised, while maintaining our wildly interventionist foreign policy. Yet everyone knows this is a lie.

    “Keep in mind that the 2011 federal deficit alone was about $1.3 trillion, which means the Super Committee needs to cut that much PER YEAR rather than over a 10 year period. If Congress ever hopes to address its debt problem, it must first stop accumulating any new debt immediately, in 2012.

    “Federal revenue likely will be about $2.3 trillion in fiscal 2012. The 2004 federal budget was about $2.3 trillion. So Congress simply needs to adopt the 2004 budget next year and the federal government will balance outlays and revenue. That’s all it would take to produce a balanced budget right now. Was the federal government really too small just 7 years ago, in 2004? Of course not. Only Washington hysteria would have us believe otherwise.

    “Yet our Republican and Democrat friends on the Super Committee want to take 10 years, or even 30 years, to produce a balanced budget.

    “Government spending isn’t just wasteful; it is often actively harmful to stated goals. The Super Committee could simply apply 2004 spending levels across the board and a tremendous victory for fiscal sanity would be accomplished.

    “What seems more likely, however, is a rearrangement of the tax code in an attempt to bring in more revenue. Deductions and credits will be taken away, and the Bush tax cuts will be allowed to expire. As a result, less money will remain in the private sector to create jobs and produce economic growth. The Super Committee has an opportunity to take a small baby step in the right direction. Instead, they no doubt will take this opportunity to raise taxes and make everything worse. But increasing taxes will only diminish freedom and deepen the recession. Instead of looking for ways to hike taxes under the guise of “raising revenue,” the Super Committee should put forth a plan of real spending cuts to put America back on the path to liberty and prosperity.”
     
  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    2013 is absolutely short term. We will not be out of the economic doldrums by then under even the rosiest of GOP scenarios and in the meantime, more people will be affected. And may I remind folks that when we talk budget we talk Fiscal Year, so that means it starts on October 1. FY 2013 is 11 months away, not 13. I would consider 11 months short term, particularly when we will do nothing to improve the economy over that stretch.

    You also fail to recognize that Dems are generally responsible people. When everyone realizes that the defense cuts will include cuts to current military and Vets' health care and pensions, the Repubs will again hold the military/vets hostage in favor of the rich and a horrible deal will be done.

    In the meantime, Repubs get to run ads that say Dems are wanting to cut Medicare, Social Security, and Defense... and unlike at any point in my life, they will be kind of correct.

    For the Dems, any outcome of this deal is both horrible government and inept politics. But hey, that doesn't matter because they have a "strong hand."
     
  5. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I'm opposed to a major political party intentionally destroying the country and frustrated because there are no structural counters that exist in our government to stop people who don't give a damn about the welfare of the country.

    And yes, like any person who thinks about it a bit, I'm opposed to the cuts in defense that screw over military personnel and vets.

    Here's Colbert:

    <table style='font:11px arial; color:#333; background-color:#f5f5f5' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='512' height='340'><tbody><tr style='background-color:#e5e5e5' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com'>The Colbert Report</a></td><td style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; text-align:right; font-weight:bold;'>Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c</td></tr><tr style='height:14px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:2px 1px 0px 5px;' colspan='2'><a target='_blank' style='color:#333; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/402700/november-17-2011/the-word---the-1-'>The Word - The 1%</a></td></tr><tr style='height:14px; background-color:#353535' valign='middle'><td colspan='2' style='padding:2px 5px 0px 5px; width:512px; overflow:hidden; text-align:right'><a target='_blank' style='color:#96deff; text-decoration:none; font-weight:bold;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/'>www.colbertnation.com</a></td></tr><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><embed style='display:block' src='http://media.mtvnservices.com/mgid:cms:item:comedycentral.com:402700' width='512' height='288' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' wmode='window' allowFullscreen='true' flashvars='autoPlay=false' allowscriptaccess='always' allownetworking='all' bgcolor='#000000'></embed></td></tr><tr style='height:18px;' valign='middle'><td style='padding:0px;' colspan='2'><table style='margin:0px; text-align:center' cellpadding='0' cellspacing='0' width='100%' height='100%'><tr valign='middle'><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/full-episodes/'>Colbert Report Full Episodes</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.indecisionforever.com/'>Political Humor & Satire Blog</a></td><td style='padding:3px; width:33%;'><a target='_blank' style='font:10px arial; color:#333; text-decoration:none;' href='http://www.colbertnation.com/video'>Video Archive</a></td></tr></table></td></tr></tbody></table>
     
  6. Major

    Major Member

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    I already addressed this. The cuts in 2013 are minor and grow over time. And if we're still in recession, there will be continual changes that delay the issue.

    As I've stated numerous times, if the Dems cave and agree to a horrible deal, they will have failed. They have no reason to, though.

    And Dems can say that the GOP is preferring to cut Medicare, SS, and defense than to raise taxes on the wealthy to cut the deficit. And polls consistently show Americans favoring the Dem viewpoint on this - even Republicans.

    I don't think you understand what a "strong hand" is. It means that they are in a position of strength on both the governing and the politics. They have all the cards to win both on policy and politics grounds. Whether they do depends on their own competence.
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Fair enough, I'm not exactly sure what the trigger/loading is, though I'm sure the Repubs will want it ASAP.

    Is this really likely? And what will have to be "given" to get it? We're not dealing with good-faith rational negotiators here, these guys will kill the hostage because they believe they're on a mission from god. Unfortunately, we're the hostage.

    Sure, European austerity is harsher - but the problem is that you're comparing cutting off your nose to spite your face vs. cutting off your legs to spite yoru face - they're both bad outcomes and indicative of a larger failure.

    Sometiems you have to step back from the trees and look at the forest. And the forest is failing.
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    And the hits keep coming for the GOP.

    I'm thinking more and more that there's a strong chance Dems will retake the house next year.


    Quinnipiac: Plurality Blame Republicans More For Super Committee Failure

    A small plurality, 44 percent of Americans, say that Republicans in Congress are more responsible for the failure of the Super Committee to come to a deal on future debt reduction. 38 percent say President Obama and the Democrats are to blame.
     
  9. glynch

    glynch Member

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    Well we have see the extreme money of the upper .1% to 1% frustrate even 70% majority on some issues, so the plurality is practically a rounding error. Let's assume the best.

    If the Dems take the House back and keep the Senate and Obama wins, do you think he will still spend all his time compromising with the GOP to show what a reasonable mild mannered bi-partisan guy he is?

    I sure hope not. Maybe we can start seeing the benefits of him finally having sufficient expereience for the job?
     
  10. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I'm hoping he will rediscover the people who put him in office!

    Us leftist, commies! ;)
     
  11. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    the prediction markets currently forecast a 75% chance of the GOP having control of both the House and the Senate in 2012.
     
  12. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    good luck with that
     
  13. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    It's time to turn over all local, state and federal budgeting and strategic decisions to computers. Matthew Broderick needs to dust off the WOPR.
     
  14. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    If we, as a human race, could program a universal set of morals into a computer, then we'd be fine to let them oversee our goings.

    Imagine, a competent UN that could be bribed that could actually get things done.

    Providing of course it's not hacked.
     
  15. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/KV-RqPtT2PU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
     
  16. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    If you think I'm clicking that you have a a very low opinion of my bull**** filter.
    And I now have a very low opinion of yours.

    Chuck Woolery? really? The President's travel budget? I'm outraged!
     

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