He made some good throws tonight. And some really bad ones. I think he can improve. He'll never be Brady or Aaron Rodgers but he can make some throws. Also the Broncos don't exactly have the greatest receivers.
Not a Tebow fan, and only saw parts of the last drive, but the guy wins games. Broncos have very minimal talent on their team, outside of Von Miller. 4-1 as a starter this year hard to argue with that.
But what I'm saying is that these wins are more the products of circumstances, not virtuoso individual performances by Tebow. I'm not trying to attack Tebow, I'm just trying to point out that there are sample size issue here, and you're not going to be able to continue to win week win, week out if he continues to put up passing performances likes this. Kudos to him for winning the games that he has, but would you want him as your starting QB?
This. If we want to compare Football with Baseball. Tim Tebow is a pitcher with a 5 ERA, while playing in the National league and batting .380 with a .650 slugging percentage.
this Tebow time reminds me of Refrigerator Perry playing offense back in the day. It's a conundrum. You know he ain't supposed to win, but he's doing it.
To take it further, one QB, Tony Romo, has been much-maligned for his un-clutch-iness. Would Tebow's "ability to win games" make him a better fit for the Cowboys? Or any other teams with good QBs? If you're John Elway, someone who knows a thing or two about the position, and you're trying to determine if Tebow is a viable long-term solution at QB, are you coming away from your evaluations saying, "Yes, this guy can be a franchise QB"?
Oh no doubt, much like the hullabaloo when VY was "just winning", the games gotta stay close so the 4th quarter magic can happen. Against Detroit the game was out of reach in the 3rd quarter so it did not really matter. The other games were close so the clutch factor of a single drive at the end gets magnified. Lets just say I don't want him as my starting QB for a whole game. But I'll take him over anyone not named Rodgers, Brees, or Brady for one drive at the end of the game. (Old VY gets ranked up here as well)
I think the longer you adapt your system to suit Tebow(like the Broncos have been doing the last few weeks) and put things in to maximize his strengths and reduce his weaknesses, the better off he will be. But I think much like we have seen with Vick and Young, defenses catch up after about a season. Then it fades, and they can come back until the defenses catch up.
VY was a headcase. And once he lost his nerve he couldn't win again. Tebow is mentally light years ahead of Vince. The guy is a modern day Paul Bunyan. He's legendary.
I suppose I agree with this. And I might be being too harsh, I mentioned in another thread that I like to recalculate QB rating adding rush attempts, YDS and rushing TDs to the inputs for QB Rating Calculator, just as a means to better understand the value of a scrambing QB. I'll plug in the numbers and see what I get.
I like the guy and there's no denying his will. I think it would be best long term to use him as an all-purpose guy...mostly h-back and wildcat/goal-line QB. Have a good passing QB and him on the field at the same time sometimes. Put him at QB inside the 15 yard line and let him wreak havoc. It seems like the damage has already been done with Orton, but if Fox could somehow incorporate a traditional passing game with what Tebow does it could be really special. But I don't see any way they are winning in the playoffs in today's NFL without being able to get up the field consistently by passing.
Huh. That boosts his QB Rating up to 95.0 (for reference, it also takes Cam from an 84 QBR to a 94 QBR). Though it's kind a quick and dirty method, and there's still major SSS issues, I may have to reevaluate. Admittedly, there's some observer bias on my part because I feel so strongly that a good QB needs to be able to throw the football, but I'll have to rethink some things. But for now, I'll amend my statement and say the Tebow is certainly a lousy passer, but I suppose if he can sustain what he's done on the ground and continues to limit his picks, it's possible he could continue to be successful.
Off topic. Where can I find stats of QB's throwing for completions WITHOUT the yards after the catch from receivers/runningbacks, that can determine who dink and dunks mostly am I right?
If you dig through advancednflstats.com they have some stuff on what they call "air yards", which is what you're describing. I can't find a comprehensive list for 2011 though. Interestingly though, the data seems to suggest that YAC is partly a QB skill (like how some guys are able to place the ball in a spot so that their WRs have room for YAC)
So now the question no one is asking: would you take Tebow over Leinart at this point? And I know I know we havent seen a full game with Leinart at qb but still...
Not in our system. I think Leinart is more capable of making the throws we need. We have enough of a rushing attack out of our RBs. Our QB just needs to balance it out with his arm.
The sample size is fine. You know how many comebacks Elway led comparable to Tebow's 2 minute heroic versus Miami in his entire career? Two. Yet there's no question that Elway is clutch. Tebow's already lead more dramatic comebacks than QBs do their entire careers. There's no way to characterize that 95 yard drive v the Jets he caps with the 3rd longest run by a QB in NFL history to win the game as anything other than "virtuoso individual performances." Tebow won that ****. It's delusional to pretend otherwise. Couple of salient points though. 1) Is Tebow a longterm solution for Denver? Don't think so. I was listening to Mike and Mike yesterday and Stink mentioned he was in Broncos training camp and that Tebow cannot make 50% of his throws to open receivers running routes. No defense. That is shocking. These are passes that elite high school QBs make 5/5. He can't make the throws. If Tebow can't throw he can't last in Denver. That is not what Elway is looking for. It will be a ****storm but it's not going to end pretty. 2) The question of longevity is a good one but one that most people who don't watch the games have a bit wrong. I can watch all these NFL games and it's actually interesting how Mike McCoy is using Tebow and mixing up the offenses. For example against the Jets it looked like he held the Tebow-run option in reserve until the very end when the Jets were worn down. Contrary to expectations they came out throwing a lot compared to the last game and every game they add new wrinkles. And Denver has changed the gameplan on the fly in multiple games. IMO they have enough angles to ride out this gimmick through the playoffs of this year. 3) Probably the biggest impediment to winning longterm like this is Tebow himself. Sure he's a team player and wants to win now but even Mike Vick eventually demanded to learn how to throw. Tebow sees himself as a quarterback, not a freakshow. For a myriad of reasons he will understand it's in his best interest to learn how to throw and to be in a system that lets him throw with success. It's not going to be fan pressure or Fox that does it, Tebow will demand it himself. The question is, can Tebow develop his throwing? That's an open question. Tebow is supposedly really dumb and scored at the bottom of the Wonderlic. No question he's a genius then it comes to making decisions about his own running/option but even if he gets his accuracy under control he may never develop the smarts to read defenses and make smart throwing decisions. That's an open and legit question. Mike Vick, Vince Young still are too stupid to do that **** in the twilight of their careers.
1st-10, DEN4 5:54 T. Tebow passed to E. Royal to the right for 8 yard gain 2nd-2, DEN13 5:25 T. Tebow rushed to the right for 15 yard gain 1st-10, DEN28 4:43 T. Tebow passed to D. Thomas to the left for 9 yard gain 2nd-1, DEN37 4:36 T. Tebow incomplete pass to the left 3rd-1, DEN37 4:32 T. Tebow rushed to the right for 7 yard gain 1st-10, DEN44 3:53 T. Tebow rushed to the right for 9 yard gain 2nd-1, NYJ47 3:45 T. Tebow rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain 1st-10, NYJ44 3:02 T. Tebow incomplete pass to the left 2nd-10, NYJ44 2:57 T. Tebow passed to D. Rosario to the left for 18 yard gain 1st-10, NYJ26 2:31 L. Ball rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain 2nd-7, NYJ23 2:00 T. Tebow rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain 3rd-4, NYJ20 0:58 T. Tebow rushed to the left for 20 yard touchdown. M. Prater made PAT
