In This Thread Every Post Must Contain A Lockout Update

sinobball · Nov 12, 2011

TEAM PLAYER REPRESENTATIVE PLAYER REPRESENTATIVE (ALTERNATES)
Atlanta Hawks Zaza Pachulia Josh Smith
Boston Celtics Paul Pierce Rajon Rondo
Charlotte Bobcats Matt Carroll Eduardo Najera
Chicago Bulls Carlos Boozer Joakim Noah
Cleveland Cavaliers Anthony Parker Ryan Hollins
Dallas Mavericks Jason Terry Brian Cardinal
Denver Nuggets Arron Afflalo Al Harrington
Detroit Pistons Austin Daye Jason Maxiell
Golden State Warriors Charlie Bell Louis Amundson
Houston Rockets Kyle Lowry Chase Budinger
Indiana Pacers Danny Granger Mike Dunleavy
LA Clippers Blake Griffin Ryan Gomes
LA Lakers Shannon Brown Derrick Caracter
Memphis Grizzlies Sam Young Mike Conley
Miami Heat *James Jones
Milwaukee Bucks Corey Maggette Luc Mbah A Moute
Minnesota Timberwolves Anthony Tolliver Kevin Love/Martell Webster
New Jersey Nets Jordan Farmar Stephen Graham
New Orleans Hornets Willie Green Emeka Okafor
New York Knicks Amar'e Stoudemire
Oklahoma City Thunder Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook
Orlando Magic Chris Duhon Jameer Nelson/J.J. Redick
Philadelphia 76ers Jason Kapono Spencer Hawes
Phoenix Suns Jared Dudley Josh Childress
Portland Trail Blazers Marcus Camby LaMarcus Aldridge
Sacramento Kings Samuel Dalembert Beno Udrih
San Antonio Spurs *Matt Bonner Richard Jefferson
Toronto Raptors Jerryd Bayless Julian Wright
Utah Jazz Ronnie Price Raja Bell
Washington Wizards *Maurice Evans

Some of the rank-and-file guys I think are in Europe: Pachulia, Daye, Farmar. Methinks the Pierces, Terrys and Grangers will pretty much determine the outcome of the meeting, unfortunately

Amel · Nov 12, 2011

lol at Bud and Kyle

no disrespect, but I thought maturity is how you get such a rank?!

LCII · Nov 12, 2011

Amel said: ↑

lol at Bud and Kyle

no disrespect, but I thought maturity is how you get such a rank?!
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They are probably the smartest and most active players in terms of team participation (well I'm sure Kyle is, not sure about Bud). We have lots of smart players, but players like Hayes, Scola, Martin probably aren't too interested in the administrative and business side of things.

JayGoogle · Nov 12, 2011

Wasn't Joey Dorsey our old team rep? Even when Battier and Yao was on the team I think.

ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/11/12/nba.players.meeting/index.html

The National Basketball Players' Association will meet with its 30 player representatives Monday morning in New York to discuss the owners' latest proposal, multiple sources confirmed to SI.com.

With NBA commissioner David Stern claiming the owners are done negotiating and threatening to drastically worsen their offer if it is not accepted by the players, the players' meeting will likely determine the fate of the 2011-12 season. Players are faced with a host of unappealing options, from taking the proposal to a league-wide vote, to filing for decertification of the union and enduring a lengthy legal battle, to continuing to negotiate with the owners.

Multiple sources close to the union said the latter option is seriously being considered, as there is an internal belief that Stern's threat is an idle one and that players could counter with a few specific requests for changes to the proposal before possibly holding a vote. The ultimate decision, however, will come as a result of what is expected to be a vital and passionate Monday meeting.

"System issues" that players say will strictly limit their freedoms in the market remain at the root of the disagreement. But widespread anger among players and agents alike is also threatening the process, especially in light of the way the owners handled the last negotiating session when players offered yet another significant concession on the economic front.

When players, who received 57 percent of basketball-related income in the last collective bargaining agreement, informally lowered their BRI offer from 52.5 percent to a 50-50 split on Tuesday, there was an expectation that they'd receive significant system concessions in return. But the owners didn't move on their proposal nearly as much as the union hoped, and NBPA officials were left privately fuming once again in these negotiations that have already been widely considered a lopsided victory for the league.

The owners' threatened offer should players not accept the current one was detailed by Stern in a letter obtained by the New York Times. It would include a drop in players' BRI to 47 percent, salary rollbacks of existing contracts, shortened contract lengths and a hard salary cap similar to the one used in the NHL.

With the league saying for months that it lost $300 million last season, the economic givebacks from the players already (with the proposed 50-50 split) equate to $280 million annually based on last season's revenue. In the absence of an agreement, though, large factions of frustrated players are strongly considering the decertification route that is so dangerous.

Sources say more than 200 players are prepared to submit a signed petition for a decertification vote, a number that's more than enough since only 30 percent of the league's 400-plus players (roughly 130 players) is required. The strategy was initially supported by a group of seven influential agents but has since grown significantly. If players do decide to file for decertification, it would take 45 to 60 days for the National Labor Relations Board to consider their petition.

Players hope the pressure of an antitrust lawsuit would be enough for the league to change its stance. But they would be forced into a precarious position if that strategy failed since it would entail a lengthy legal battle that would likely sacrifice the entire season. The NBA in August filed a lawsuit with the NLRB, asserting not only that the lockout is legal but also that decertification of the union is not and would result in the possible voiding of existing player contracts.

Stern -- whose proposal, if accepted, would result in a 72-game season that would start on Dec. 15 -- reminded players of that threat in an appearance on ESPN's SportsCenter.

"If the union is not in existence, neither are $4 billion worth of guaranteed contracts that were entered into on the condition that there is a union," Stern said, according to Newsday. "So if the agents insist upon playing with fire, my guess is that they would get themselves burned."

While it remains possible that the player reps and union officials decide to put this current proposal up for a vote, they have yet to share the details of the proposal with their constituents in any organized and comprehensive fashion as of Saturday morning. Similarly, there were no widespread updates on the union's strategy or stance beyond private conversations between members of its executive committee and player reps with their innumerable colleagues.

Thus, agents and players spent Friday scrambling to piecemeal the details and form their own opinions. Numerous sources who spoke with SI.com expressed frustration at the perceived lack of urgency on display. Come Monday morning, they'll have no choice but to decide what comes next.
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ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

AschNBA Steve Aschburner
Folks getting hung up on D-League stuff deserve an F-Minus at this point in NBA CBA talks.

KCJHoop K.C Johnson
Amazing-or maybe not-the disparity in knowledge of NBA offer within union. Some players know all. Others don't know who player rep is.

MikeWellsNBA Mike Wells
@JerryZgoda reporting that Monday's player rep meeting is open to all players. Here's the time for the uninformed players to get informed

Awesome · Nov 12, 2011

Through its Twitter feed dedicated to labor talks with the union, the NBA office is disseminating information about its proposal. If these statements are accurate, the NBA's revised offer would appear to have made a few more concessions than have previously been reported.

Under the revised offer, the repeater tax would only apply against teams that go over the tax four times in five years. Under the previous proposal, it was believed that the repeater tax would kick in for teams that exceeded the tax threshold three times in five years.

In addition, projections for the luxury tax threshold would be between $70 million and $85 million over six seasons.

The NBA also states that maximum salaries would range between $13 million and $19 million, presumably referring to the first-season salary of such a contract.

Via NBA Office (via Twitter)

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/216494/Proposed_CBA_Tax_Threshold_Of_$70M___$85M;_Max_Salaries_Of_$13M___$19M
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More:

NBA_LaborNBA Labor

Over last CBA, only 4 sign-and-trades by taxpayers that new rule would have prohibited

1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

NBA Proposal: Players retain full Bird rights

1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

NBA Proposal: Ability to stretch waived player’s salary frees up more money for teams to spend on FAs

1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

NBA Proposal: Increased minimum team salary - from 75% of cap to 90%

1 hour agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

NBA Proposal: More cap exceptions for teams who are not taxpayers...

4 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

Fact: Under prior CBA, only 3 players per season received more than $5M salary using mid-level exception

5 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply

NBA_LaborNBA Labor

NBA Proposal: More mid-levels than 2005 CBA: $5M for non-taxpayers, $3M for taxpayers, $2.5M for room teams

5 hours ago
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NBA_LaborNBA Labor

Yes. RT @KBergCBS Remembered my question, @NBA_Labor ... mini-mid-level is EVERY year in new proposal, correct?

5 hours agoFavoriteRetweetReply
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[/quote]

ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

http://www.sbnation.com/2011/11/12/2557061/nba-lockout-2011-d-league-clause-players

The NBA lockout negotiations ended late this week with yet another proposal on the table for the players to consider. If the players don't accept, it could put in motion a messy decertification process that could potentially wipe out the entire season.

There are quite a few rumors regarding what exactly is included in the latest offer, leading to a public outburst from players and media about how terrible it would be for the players. But not all of the rumors are true.

ESPN's Ric Bucher reported that a "D-League clause" was included in the latest proposal that would have dropped salaries down to $75,000 for any player assigned to the NBA D-League. The league denied that report, however, and SB Nation has confirmed through several sources that Bucher's reported clause is not in the most recent proposal despite being briefly brought up during talks.

The current plan, at least at this point, is for the owners and players to figure out all of the major issues before moving back to discuss less important issues. The relationship between the NBA and its official minor league are currently lumped together with the secondary issues.

One option that has at least been discussed, sources tell SB Nation, would be to allow NBA teams to sign two "development" players at $100,000 salaries -- nearly four times higher than the current D-League maximum -- to allow for a sort of NFL practice squad-type relationship between the NBA and D-League team. It remains to be seen if those two players would count against the 15-man roster.

Ultimately, the D-League portion of the CBA is not going to make or break the deal -- both sides know that. If the players and owners are able to agree on the major issues, the D-League will be discussed and changes will more than likely be implemented, but not to the extent that it would cause the players to make it a sticking point.
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ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

sinobball said: ↑

TEAM PLAYER REPRESENTATIVE PLAYER REPRESENTATIVE (ALTERNATES)
Atlanta Hawks Zaza Pachulia Josh Smith
Boston Celtics Paul Pierce Rajon Rondo
Charlotte Bobcats Matt Carroll Eduardo Najera
Chicago Bulls Carlos Boozer Joakim Noah
Cleveland Cavaliers Anthony Parker Ryan Hollins
Dallas Mavericks Jason Terry Brian Cardinal
Denver Nuggets Arron Afflalo Al Harrington
Detroit Pistons Austin Daye Jason Maxiell
Golden State Warriors Charlie Bell Louis Amundson
Houston Rockets Kyle Lowry Chase Budinger
Indiana Pacers Danny Granger Mike Dunleavy
LA Clippers Blake Griffin Ryan Gomes
LA Lakers Shannon Brown Derrick Caracter
Memphis Grizzlies Sam Young Mike Conley
Miami Heat *James Jones
Milwaukee Bucks Corey Maggette Luc Mbah A Moute
Minnesota Timberwolves Anthony Tolliver Kevin Love/Martell Webster
New Jersey Nets Jordan Farmar Stephen Graham
New Orleans Hornets Willie Green Emeka Okafor
New York Knicks Amar'e Stoudemire
Oklahoma City Thunder Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook
Orlando Magic Chris Duhon Jameer Nelson/J.J. Redick
Philadelphia 76ers Jason Kapono Spencer Hawes
Phoenix Suns Jared Dudley Josh Childress
Portland Trail Blazers Marcus Camby LaMarcus Aldridge
Sacramento Kings Samuel Dalembert Beno Udrih
San Antonio Spurs *Matt Bonner Richard Jefferson
Toronto Raptors Jerryd Bayless Julian Wright
Utah Jazz Ronnie Price Raja Bell
Washington Wizards *Maurice Evans

Some of the rank-and-file guys I think are in Europe: Pachulia, Daye, Farmar. Methinks the Pierces, Terrys and Grangers will pretty much determine the outcome of the meeting, unfortunately
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Is being reported that all NBA players are welcomed to attend the meeting on Monday.

I think if the Martin's, Kobe's and Blake's come, I think we may see a vote for the deal.

ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

KDTrey5 Kevin Durant
One more person tweet me and say that us players are selfish ima bite my fingernails off! Stop saying that when we givin up TOO much smh

Easy · Nov 12, 2011

JayGoogle said: ↑

Wasn't Joey Dorsey our old team rep? Even when Battier and Yao was on the team I think.
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I think you are right. Nobody wants to be the player rep. So they elect the dumbest guys to do the dirty work.

You would think that if you wanted someone to deal with something as complicated as the CBA, you'd want the most cerebral guys to do the job.

AFS · Nov 12, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

KDTrey5 Kevin Durant
One more person tweet me and say that us players are selfish ima bite my fingernails off! Stop saying that when we givin up TOO much smh
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Quick, someone do it. KD without fingernails would be interesting.

Commodore · Nov 12, 2011

ascaptjack said: ↑

KDTrey5 Kevin Durant
One more person tweet me and say that us players are selfish ima bite my fingernails off! Stop saying that when we givin up TOO much smh
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not selfish, irrational

Houston22 · Nov 12, 2011

Commodore said: ↑

not selfish, irrational
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Like you. Wanting to see games is not rational..

ascaptjack · Nov 12, 2011

ESPNSteinLine Marc Stein
Kevin Durant (@KDTrey5) before Josh Howard charity game on NBA's offer: "From the vibe I'm getting, I don't think it's a deal we want."

JayZ750 · Nov 12, 2011

I'm a huge KD fan, but from his tweets, clearly he isnt super informed about facts. He does have a vibe though!!

If the players don't take this offer, the season is cancelled, and they end up with a worse offer plus the lost season down the road... Which seems pretty plausible, then clearly the players would be too selfish.

Lurch · Nov 12, 2011

If the players don't accept, I hope Stern cancels the entire season and forces the players to beg for any deal they can get.

meh · Nov 12, 2011

Part of me actually want to see Stern's "threatened offer" with the hard cap(BRI portion I could care less though). I'm actually getting to the point where I almost wish the NHL situation gets repeated. Lost season. Hard cap. Lottery system that weighs the past seasons' success(due to the Knicks pick). And a clean roster with cap room to sign a max player if not 2 with some player movements.

Easy said: ↑

I think you are right. Nobody wants to be the player rep. So they elect the dumbest guys to do the dirty work.

You would think that if you wanted someone to deal with something as complicated as the CBA, you'd want the most cerebral guys to do the job.
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Dorsey was player rep back when the position was worthless. When you're in the middle of the CBA, what do player reps do anyway? Hold annual meetings on the dress code and stuff? It's only important for situations like this.

Easy · Nov 12, 2011

meh said: ↑

Part of me actually want to see Stern's "threatened offer" with the hard cap(BRI portion I could care less though). I'm actually getting to the point where I almost wish the NHL situation gets repeated. Lost season. Hard cap. Lottery system that weighs the past seasons' success(due to the Knicks pick). And a clean roster with cap room to sign a max player if not 2 with some player movements.
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I totally agree with you.

Dorsey was player rep back when the position was worthless. When you're in the middle of the CBA, what do player reps do anyway? Hold annual meetings on the dress code and stuff? It's only important for situations like this.
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I was half joking. Aren't player reps supposed to represent their teammates in case there is a vote though?

Icehouse · Nov 12, 2011

Etan Thomas, EVP of the NBPA, responds to Stern:

1. To his credit, David Stern can spin information with the best of them. That being said, I have not met one player who, after fully understanding the particulars of the NBA's proposal, concluded that this is an acceptable deal. So my question is, what will it take for the NBA CEOs to understand that they are not going to be able to manipulate the players through the media?

2. The NBA CEOs know that their proposed system functions as a hard cap, because no team will be willing to pay that strict a penalty for going over the luxury tax. Do they think the players can't see that?

4. Are the NBA CEOs convince the union can't figure out that the way in which they constructed and defined the mid-level exception, no team will ever use it?

5. Did the NBA CEOs believe with Michael Jordan to the negotiating table we were going to be intimidated or awed to the point that this awful deal would start to look more attractive to us?

6. David Stern obviously issued his "terrible deal now or even worse deal" later ultimatum because he wanted to scare the players into meeting his every demand. Did he really expect that his threat would cause the union to come running with apologies for being bad employees and beg him to let us go back to work?

10. When someone buys a fast-food franchise, they don't just get keys and a congratulations card. They receive instructions on how to successfully operate the business. Instead of the NBA CEOs attempting to create rules to save them from from themselves , wouldn't the NBA be better off with a training session by David Stern, teaching each NBA CEO how to successfully run his business and avoid the pitfalls of CEOs past?

11. Why wouldn't the NBA consider a rollback on the salaries of the presidents and general managers who mismanaged their teams and were the ones ultimately responsible for their financial problems?

22. During the NFL's lockout, Troy Polamalu said, "I think what the players are fighting for is something bigger. A lot of people think it's millionaires versus billionaires and that's the huge argument. The fact is, it's people fighting against big business. The big business argument is, 'I got the money and I got the power, therefore, I can tell you what to do.' That's life everywhere. I think this is a time when the football players are standing up saying, 'No, no, no, the people have the power.'" Isn't it interesting how the common theme here is power and greed?

23. If your boss came to you and said, "Listen, I know we are coming off of record overall profits as far as overall revenue and the most lucrative year in history but we have made some individual decisions that we are not happy with and we need you to take massive pay cuts. We need you to agree to construct the rules so that we can no longer make those mistakes, and we want you to make it easier for us to get rid of you if we choose." What would your reaction be? Would you say "Some money is better than no money," or would you gather the rest of your fellow employees and stand up for yourselves?
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http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/id/7223340/etan-thomas-questions-nba-labor-negotiations

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