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Hollinger Player Analysis

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by redhotrox, Nov 9, 2011.

  1. redhotrox

    redhotrox Member

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    I don’t think that PER stat about Chase’s defense tells a very clear story at all. He might be better than the eye test shows on defense, but I think “solid two-way player” is really pushing it.

    But I knew DaDakota would jump on that to say HAHA to the “layman.” :)
     
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  2. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    With some distance from the Rockets, I've found my perceptions about the quality of our players markedly decreased from before. Nowadays, I have changed my stance and do feel we need to rebuild. Our set of players is gutsy, gritty, and fun to root for, but the talent to win a championship is clearly lacking. Points:

    1. The only guys on our team we should be keeping are Lowry, Martin, Morris, and Patterson. The rest in my mind could be good role player filler on a team with multiple superstars, but they wouldn't be catalysts for turning a team into a championship contender the way the other guys could be.

    2. I still feel Lowry is better than Hollinger gives him credit for. The second half of last season he had me believing that he could be Deron Williams pt 2. He was creating shots and making clutch threes all over the place. So what if his long-2% sucks? He isn't practicing that shot is why. He practiced his 3's and that's what improved, obviously.

    3. Martin is probably not as good as we make him out to be, but he could still be an all-star paired up with an inside force like Dwight. In fact, Dwight NEEDS a guy like this. He's never had one this good before. Rashard Lewis and Hedo were just goofy 3pt-happy small forwards, and Courtney Lee while being a "shooter" remains not to be the shot creator nor pure shooter that Martin is. I look to the FT% when I want to call a shooter "pure", and Martin clearly is in a class above when it comes to that.

    4. We should probably deal Dragic, Scola, Bud while their stocks are high. Hollinger gives multiple reasons why their ceilings are low and why their production in the immediate future is likely to plateau or drop off.

    5. Flynn, Thabeet, Williams are probably worthless. Motiejunas would have to perform in the NBA much different than he has in Europe these past two years to 'pan out' the way we'd like him to. Which might not be impossible given his physical abilities and court vision.

    6. Man, how the heck did we win so many games with this ragtag crew last year? When we finally start back up, will Morey give McHale the green light to play this group DOWN to the talent level we all know they are at? Because anything else, I'm sad to say, is just treading water at this point.
     
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  3. RocketsRed14

    RocketsRed14 Member

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    They are hard workers who play with heart, teamwork, and they never give up.
     
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  4. rlmjdime

    rlmjdime Member

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    I agree with most of what you said, but not so sure how Morris has built up so much value without playing a single minute. I like the guy, but I need to watch him play to say that about him. I completely agree with your view on Lowry as well as what was said about Scola. I love the guy; but he is on the wrong side of 30 for a team that is not there. He still has some value, but that could be very close declining. We'll be just fine giving those minutes to PPat.
     
  5. BetterThanEver

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    Agreed. Chase's defense might have improved from his rookie year. However, the 2-way player argument is misleading. It could look better, if Chase is guarding the weakest perimeter player. They could have Lee guarding the best offensive SG/SF.
     
  6. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Does anyone not recall the Miami game toward the end of last season?

    Adelman had to have CHUCK HAYES guard Lebron instead of Bud the Dinger. I mean, Jesus, don't you people realize what this says about the Dinger's D?
     
  7. meh

    meh Member

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    Yep. You are thinking of PER. This would also be my complaint of him, if only because PER is too general for any detailed analysis. I think it's good for something like "Player X is under the radar, as he has the same PER as Player Y that everyone thinks is really good".

    But if you want to truly convince someone on any issue, I'd expect more detailed analysis.
     
  8. BetterThanEver

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    It would have been more interesting, if Hollinger showed the difference in the offensive player's average PER and PER guarded by a specific player. A 12.7 PER doesn't look so hot, if the guarded player has a 10 PER for the season.

    It would be a better way to rate defense, if a guy is guarding LeBron or the backup defensive specialist SF/SG.
     
  9. meh

    meh Member

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    Unless I'm mistaken, the average player has a 15 PER. And I don't feel like Bud has been guarding specific players last year(he was starting some and coming off the bench some). With a season's worth of sample size, I think it's safe to say his opponent has not performed above average just in terms of stats.

    That said, there could be other reasons. Such as the Rockets horrible interior defense and Brooks' horrible PG defense that made opponents shift their strategies elsewhere. But overall, you have to say that's pleasantly surprising given how much flak Chase has taken about his D.
     
  10. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    So you guys are now making excuses about Cbud's improved defense instead of celebrating that a young player got better?

    Really?

    DD
     
  11. kevC

    kevC Member

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    That's how much people don't like you.
     
  12. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    You know Kev, how sad would that be, that people would rather care about what an anonomous guy on the internet thinks than cheer for a player on their own team - but I seriously doubt I am in peoples minds that much that they would cheer against me rather than for the Rockets....that would be pretty lame.

    I mean, that is sad. Who cares what others think, the guy got better, we should cheer it on.

    Same with any Rocket.....

    Cheer on the team, leave petty arguments behind...

    DD
     
  13. Noob Cake

    Noob Cake Member

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    DD can both be influenced or unmoved by statistics. His pick any day.
     
  14. kevC

    kevC Member

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    Meh, just because you don't think Budinger's a good defensive player, doesn't mean you're cheering against the Rockets.
     
  15. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Fair enough.

    Well said.

    DD
     
  16. caneks

    caneks Rookie

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    good one, thanks.
     
  17. ChievousFTFace

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    Is Patterson really a B level athlete?

    From what I've noticed, he has above average strength, leaping ability and has a great burst to the rim. The only area where he might lack is lateral movement.
     
  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    B is above average, isn't it?
     
  19. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Great post.

    The Rockets gave up a lot for Motiejunas. If he can play well enough on defense to get on court, he'll be fine.
     
  20. mickey_angelo

    mickey_angelo Member

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    Can someone post a link, and are there other team analysis? I need something NBA related other than the lockout.
     

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