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NBA Lockout Reaction Thread

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by opticon, Nov 7, 2011.

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  1. opticon

    opticon Member

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    In a effort to keep the Lockout update thread clear of debate and speculation I have created this one.

    Feel Free to quote the news you are reacting to or not.
     
    #1 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  2. DallasThomas

    DallasThomas Contributing Member

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    Cool! Now DaDakota can come in here and only post news...:rolleyes:

    Seriously, though, it's getting really rough in those "negotiations". Seems like the players are the only ones willing to negotiate - how do the owners see this ending?
     
    #2 DallasThomas, Nov 7, 2011
    1 person likes this.
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    LOL - Sorry Dallas, it is a BBS, people react to news that is posted.....my bad.

    DD
     
    #3 DaDakota, Nov 7, 2011
  4. opticon

    opticon Member

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    I think the owners are counting on guys like Marvin Williams , Travis Outlaw and Amir Johnson. Also lets now forget Charlie Villanueva (The Pistons can only Amnesty cut one player and my money is on Ben Gordon).

    What do these guys have in common?

    They all have deals they had no business getting. I am now convinced that owners gave out those deals and others in a attempt to buy votes to get the deal they want passed. :rolleyes:

    Why else would they hand out that kind of money to scrubs , draft busts and undersized combo guards. :grin:
     
    #4 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
  5. Spooner

    Spooner Member

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    ummm...what? What incentive do owners truly have to negotiate? Real question is how do the players see this ending? If they don't take a deal now, they are done.
     
    #5 Spooner, Nov 7, 2011
  6. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    I wonder how you can negotiate with no leverage?

    I guess just stamp your feet, fold your arms, and ask for more. Seems like that's the unions strategy.
     
    #6 JayGoogle, Nov 7, 2011
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Exactly, the owners have been consistent and the players are ignoring what they are saying.

    They want to fix the system the old one caused them to lose money, the players have been doing everything to keep the old system in place...it is not going to work....

    I think they are burying their heads in the sand and hoping the owners were lying.

    I think the owners have had enough.....they can wait the players out.

    DD
     
    #7 DaDakota, Nov 7, 2011
  8. DallasThomas

    DallasThomas Contributing Member

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    No biggie, honestly. I'll admit I was a little annoyed when you first posted, because I know every comment you make spawns like 5 pages of rebuttals from hangers-on and the like...but I'm a realistic person and I figured beforehand there was no way it would go like planned.
     
    #8 DallasThomas, Nov 7, 2011
  9. DallasThomas

    DallasThomas Contributing Member

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    Losing games was a worst case scenario for both sides. That should have been more than enough incentive for everyone involved to negotiate...compromise, if you will.

    I think the owners should have just taken a hard stance from the beginning (which they did), get as close to the deal they wanted as possible (which they are), make sure it would only be a 3 year deal, then get it ratified.

    That way, they could've built off of the league's existing momentum as a product, gotten most of what they wanted, then started crying about taking financial losses again a year down the road...leading to a CBA that's 100% agreeable to the league in a few years without losing games.

    Baby steps...
     
    #9 DallasThomas, Nov 7, 2011
  10. opticon

    opticon Member

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    The fact that the players have no leverage is why they might have a chance in court.

    Especially with the restrictions FIBA has on US players playing in Foreign Leagues.

    What is stopping the league from dropping the BRI to 30 Percent on the next CBA? Nothing. The players have really have no recourse out side of the courts.

    A line in the sand has to be drawn on minimum revenue splits and players can't do it.

    I think at some point the courts are going to have to weigh in on what is the minimum percentage players are entitled to.

    I just don't think this group of players as a whole has the stomach to resist 50% carrot the owners are dangling.
     
    #10 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
  11. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Please explain the two bolded statements. My brother is the lawyer in our family, but neither makes sense to me.
     
    #11 A_3PO, Nov 7, 2011
  12. opticon

    opticon Member

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    If the owners are able to so blatantly dictate the terms of this labor deal do you think the other American Pro leagues will turn a blind eye?

    Businesses copy each other and Mimic what is successful for the others.

    IF the NBAPA takes the deal on the table the MLB will use the same tactics on the baseball players union.

    I am not a layer either but I do know alot about software and hardware pricing.

    Their is a reason Intel lets AMD hang around.

    If Intel really wanted to they could rush AMD in a span of less then 3 years. But if they did they would be the only x86 processor manufacturer in the US and would be broken up by the government.

    A couple of years ago Intel tried to get cute with government and started to pay extra money to hardware OEMs to buy more of their chips and less of AMDs.

    Once the government got wind of it Intel had to millions of Dollars in damages to AMD.

    All that to say if the NBA imposes their will over the negations to much and put the players in a extremely unfavorable anti competitive position, The courts will step in and award damages or set compensation standards if the players are willing to take it to court and loose money while the litigation goes on which could take years like it did for AMD.

    Sometimes courts do let on that you are better of settling out of court and most of the time the two parties listen.
     
    #12 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
  13. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    The other leagues have nothing to do with this. If MLB tried the same with their players, there would be no baseball indefinitely. The fact is they won't because the players own MLB and not the other way around. Nothing that happens with the NBA will change that. The dynamics are very different.

    What does Intel vs. AMD have to do with the NBA's internal labor dispute? You are going off the tracks. The courts have no reason to step in because your analogy doesn't apply. The NHL imposed it's will on the players and the same thing is happening here. If the NBPA makes the same mistake the NHL union did, they will also be ground into powder. THIS is the precedent that applies.
     
    #13 A_3PO, Nov 7, 2011
  14. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Why don't you bother to spend a couple of how reading about anti trust and sports. Read the supreme court ruling about the NFL.
     
    #14 Air Langhi, Nov 7, 2011
  15. opticon

    opticon Member

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    Once the union De-certifies they can file anti-competitive litigation. If the NBA sticks to their guns of not budging off of their reset proposal once Wednesday passes they will have clear evidence of not negotiating in good faith.

    The NLBR can then strongly recommend that the 2 parties settle or face a unfavorable decision
     
    #15 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Based on his remarks today, David Stern doesn't see any threat at all from decertification. Other commentators agree with him. Looks like it would be a swing and a miss for the players and they would end up losing the season AND get a worse deal.
     
    #16 A_3PO, Nov 7, 2011
  17. opticon

    opticon Member

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    I too tired to find it but I saw a article the other day where a judge called the nba's complaint case that that the union was not negotiating in good faith "light"

    David Stern is not going go on National TV and say he is afraid of De-certification.

    He gains nothing by doing that.

    The players could have De-certified back in July but they did not. That was a calculated move by the union to be able to say that they at least tired to negotiate.

    If this goes to court it will not be a slam dunk for the NBA.
     
    #17 opticon, Nov 7, 2011
  18. ascaptjack

    ascaptjack Member

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    Chris Broussard is reporting that at least 7 hard line owners are pissed that Stern offered a 50/50 BRI split and hope the players reject that offer. Among the assholes are Jordan, Sarver and Herb Khol. They are afraid the players will accept the offer tomorrow and want to go to the offer that would be available after Wednesday. (47% BRI, flex cap, and roll back on add. salaries).

    The players should stick it to the owners and just accept the deal! :grin:
     
    #18 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
  19. ascaptjack

    ascaptjack Member

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    So right now the most significant players to date that would accept the CBA deal are all from different classes of players. Kobe Bryant (Superstar), LaMarcus Aldridge (All-Star), Kevin Martin (high end role player) and Steve Blake (rank and file).

    We will be hearing from more players by tomorrow.
     
    #19 ascaptjack, Nov 7, 2011
  20. Major

    Major Member

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    It also seems hard to argue that the owners weren't negotiating when your union got to within about a 1% difference on the most contentious issue, and got agreement on most of the other major issues.
     
    #20 Major, Nov 7, 2011
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