very solid posts dobro, I heartily agree. it is a rare shotblocker in todays game that can control the blocked shot into his teammates hands...at least a charge guarantees possession. I feel that the supposed psychological effect from blocked shots most internet pundits like to use as an excuse for why they put such a priority on shot blocking is way over-stated. these aren't amateurs in pickup games, these are professionals who should be above allowing a blocked shot to intimidate them.
In theory, yes, but it's not quite that easy. It isn't so much about in intimidation, as it is about altering shots. Dwight Howard may only block 2 or 3 shots a game, but he's altering A TON of shots. You have to realize that it's much harder to shot over an athletic freak with a huge wingspang that it is over a guy who may be quick to rotate, but won't alter your shot. You have to put more arc on your shot/floater, put it higher off the glass, use angles you may not be used to or pull the trigger earlier. It has an direct effect on your game. Also, while you guys are correct that it is quite rare guys get intimidated by a shot blocker, in Howard's cased I sure have seen it happen. Some people may tend to overrate blocks, but having a center that's able to alter shots helps your defense tremendously.
You do not know what you are talking about.... a post player that keeps players out of the lane and alters shot selection is EXTREMELY important and is to a large extent what the Rockets lack post-Yao.
Motiejunas is considered just about the softest power forward in Europe. There is no way in the world that he could ever play the center position.
You are taking what I said out of context. I mean the value is in the defensive player affecting change of possesions, leading to more opportunities to score. A "shot blocker" might block 2 or 3 shots a game, but that doesn't mean that he is doing everything else right. A blocked shot on the stat sheet doesn't necessarily mean that he is consistently producing defensively in the post. Further explanation coming later. In reponse to HMMMHMM's post. I understand exactly what your saying, but your confusing what I was trying to get at. The Value of 2 PFs who can defend the post effectively, rebound, etc. has a greater value than 1 good PF and a stiff of a Center who just so happens to be 7ft tall. Dwight Howard is a productive center that can give the same production as the skilled PF, but add other elements like freak athleticism, long reach, etc. that obviously adds more value. (Just realize there are 4 or 5 quality centers in the league that can add those elements of the game and not sacrifice other aspects of the game.) Obviously 1 good PF and a GOOD center outweighs 2 good PF's playing the post. Remember Good Yao Vs. 2010 Yao(coming off of an injury year of not playing). -At the beginning of the season Yao was actually hurting the team defensively at first because of his lack of lateral quickness, speed of the game, lower body weakness, etc. and Chuck Hayes actually produced more effectively as a post defender when given the starting job post Yao Injury. I realize a healthy Yao outweighs Chuck 10 to 1, but you can compare the situation to giving PT to a stiff of a center like Thabeet Vs playing an undersized but good post defender/rebounder in Chuck Hayes. Even the beloved Rick Adelman understood this and thus Chuck continued to beat out bad Centers/"shot blockers" like Thabeet & Jordan Hill continually. I agree that the Rockets need to add a center, but it needs to be a good one. There is no point in signing a mediocre to bad one that wont produce more than Chuck. Since there are only 4 or 5 quality centers in the league right now, the best thing for Rockets fans to realize is that if they cant land Dwight Howard or Mark Gasol, the 2nd best option is to continue to hope for one to fall to them in the draft or groom a young prospect while you continue to play the better post players now and win some games.
Please move convo to OHMSS NBA VS Euroleague thread or Donatas M. thread. No need to clog up another thread with this nonsense.
Anyone who'd take a player who takes charges over a player who blocks n alters shots, doesnt want to win championships...
Yes I would take a GOOD post player who is undersized and takes charges Vs. a BAD post player who just so happens to be 7ft. and blocks shots anyday. FYI, a charge is a guarenteed possesion while a block doesn't guarentee anything. The ability to alter shots obviously has value to a coach & GM, but not at the expense of everything else that a quality PF can bring. People on this board just need to understand the logic of the Rockets front office and coaches whether you agree with it or not. The title of this thread is "Why so many PF's" Well thats why. FYI, wins = playoffs = championships You have to play defense effectively as a team to win games to get to the playoffs to win a Championship.
Like I said dobro... You dont wanna win a championship then.... Give me prime-Theo Ratcliffe over prime-Chuck Hayes any day..... I'm guessing thats a decent enough comparison for you right?
Absolutely incorrect...if anything its worse. Professional athletes are very arrogant and prideful. The last thing they want be is dunked on or blocked... If you block a guy once or twice in a row hell stop driving on you and settle for contested jumpers. I dont know how many times I have seen that. Blocking if anything is underrated.
Terrible comparison. Prime Theo Ratcliffe was an all-star and on the all-defensive team. A more viable comparison would be Chuck Hayes vs Hasheem Thabeet. And yes I would take the 6 ft 6, lock down defender, charge taking Chuck Hayes over the 7 ft Hasheem Thabeet who's only ability is blocking.
well flam... thats where we differ.. Not saying Thabeet is my choice at all... But I 'd throw him in there at center rather than Chuck Hayes...keyword is at center.... How can the ability to alter/block shots be undervalued?... You all have gotten so used to Chuck Hayes , its ridiculous... A shotblocking center will enable our guards to be more aggressive on D... Which in turn generates easy transition baskets...It will enable our players to not exert so much energy on D , which will cause fatique at the end of games(last season is example)... Ask Chuck or Battier if they would rather take charges or have the ability to alter/block shots(for smart-asses, its rheutorical) ... Charges are more appericiated and shows extreme dedication...But blocking/altering shots is an impactful skill that changes game plans..
The problem here is your basing front office and coaching decisions based on Pride and arrogance, not actual data and performance. Realize we are talking about the Rockets here. Again, like I said before, the ability to alter shots should have value, but not at the expense of everything else like blown assignments, rotational skill, foot speed, lower body strength, rebounding abilities, mental toughness, etc.
Prime Theo Ratcliffe isnt on the market. Thats my point. Who is on the market, other than a handlful of centers like Dwight Howard, cant produce with the same efficiency as Chuck Hayes. Thats the problem. Old school Theo Ratcliffe could do alot of the things Chuck can do plus add the elements of shot blocking many years ago, but that guy isnt available. You have Hasheem Thabeets available. Look at the market out there of centers, how many could actually outperform Chuck?. Forget whether they block shots or not, and look at overall performance. That should be your first basis when looking at free agent or potential trade targets.
Name a shotblocker that doesnt have any of those attributes?... If he is a shotblocker, more than likely he can/will rebound.... Even Thabeet I believe can rebound if given minutes... Your obsession with Chuck Hayes-type players is very understandable, but its not reality for a team positioned for a championship run.....
