Exactamundo, the owners can go more than a year without basketball. They could push it into the second year and still have more money than God. The players if they can hold out for an entire year, not happening, they will gain very little. They will 100% have to go to work for a full season in year 2, the owners can again wait them out. The deal will be on the owners terms of 50-50 or expect something along the lines of 53-47+ in favor of the owners. Players can NOT win this.
Not to mention the players get a year older, when father time is the enemy of basketball players. They should take the deal.. DD
It's not about the owners having leverage and can hold out longer. If the lockout ends the season and goes into next season, the future of the NBA is not very bright. It will take YEARS for the owners to earn back the earning potential/momentum that last year generated. They need to end the lockout now. If both sides are greedy, they need to start the season ASAP.
You could be right. But I'm not as sure as you are. Would you have abandoned the Rockets and rooted for a Greek team if Hakeem went to play in Greece at his prime? I don't know about you. I probably wouldn't. I might lose a bit of interest in the Rockets, but I'd still root for the team, and not some ex-superstar. The thing is, there will always be good players who are willing to play for the NBA for half of what the current players are making now. And I am sure American people will still watch that NBA. Europeans still watch Euroleague even though their players are inferior to the NBA.
As much as I want Basketball I don't blame Billy for holding the line at 52%. If the players don't make a stand here they will be in the 30s on BRI the next time they have to sign a new agreement. When one side has all the power it is never good for the consumer as a whole.
It's not about just the hardcore fans of the team. I think he meant the general NBA fans/casual sports fans. The NBA superstars draw those casual viewers, not the fans of particular teams already.
Hasn't there always been guaranteed contracts in the NBA? Not a reason to keep it there, but you act as if there is a comparison to be made which you cannot. You can speculate, but that is it. It is not illegal to have a partially guaranteed contract right now. It is also not illegal to have shorter contracts or contracts with team options. You can play hard ball to get those things. It is just that teams and GM's typically don't. What about those guaranteed signing bonuses in the NFL? It works in the NFL, because most players don't have huge signing bonuses and their cap is double that of the NBA. Think working in signing bonuses and figuring that out for owners will be easy with a lower cap in the NBA? It will be just as difficult as it is now, and probably will lead to as many issues with GM's offering large signing bonuses that can still lead to the team having losses. Also with non-guaranteed contracts, that also means every year a contract can be restructured. Remember all those players who sit out the pre-season in protest to get a new contract? Think it won't happen in the NBA? If anything, I could see NBA players doing that even more than NFL players do it. Also, for the NFL. Sure you can cut a player and sign someone from all those practice squads because there are a lot of players available (since there is virtually no competition with other leagues), and that players impact can be hidden due to all the other players on the field and since they only play defense or offense. Look at how many rookies undrafted players start and play huge positions for good NFL teams. That is because of all the practices per week to get them up to snuff and their weaknesses can be easily covered up by all their teammates. For the NBA, those players on the NBAD teams are equivalent to the really bad players on the end of the bench, but can they mix and match with those players in the rotation? They are also fewer practices in between games to get players to understand what is going on to be able to play, and you cannot minimize their impact on the court. They have to play off and def, and there are only 4 other teammates on the court to cover for mistakes. All of this is seen in that rookies and new players don't often play for good, contending teams; especially if they are acquired mid-season. Remember those signing bonuses. Unguaranteed contracts does not prevent this. Maybe it limits it some, but not by a huge amount. Furtermore, players get contracts from owners from what? All star games. Pts, Rebounds, blocks, steals, etc. Whats the point? Having to continually fight for contracts motivates players to be box score chasers more often. Being a box score player does not mean they are necessarily a better player, will help a team win, or allow a team to have chemistry. This already happens with players in contract years. And you cannot argue that GM's will make good decisions to sign players with character and not out for themselves only, because they could already fail to that right now and that reason, the general stupidity of most NBA GM's is the reason for all the horrible contracts. So you now trade "me first" lazy players for "me first" I'm gonna fight for shots and box stats so that I can get paid this summer and not him. I'm sorry, but in the MLB's Wild Card era, 11 different franchises have won a World Series and 19 different franchises have played in a World Series. Guaranteed contracts are not the reason for the lack of competitive balance in the MLB, so it is a presumption to say they are in the NBA. So many things go into the lack of championship balance, including EVERY series being 7 games truly filtering out the worst teams and the fact that having the best players in the NBA really matter that much more than in any other sport. NFL games are only 2 days week. You don't have to watch games every night like in MLB which is too exhausting and time consuming for most people. You also have a consistent schedule unlike NBA where games can be B2B, every other day or whatever. Only 16 games. So every game REALLY matters. Casual Fans pretty much don't care for the first half of the NBA or MLB season. Regular season upsets don't matter for MLB or NBA. They do in NFL. Tailgating is big for football, and not so much for other sports. People often go just for that and do not even go to the game. NFL also gives people an huge, regular excuse to drink on Sundays. Trust me it helps. NFL Fantasy Football is by far the king of all such attempts to grab the casual fan. EVERYONE I know plays Fantasy Football. Only true MLB and NBA fans play the same thing. It gets the general sports fan to care. NFL playoff games are all do or die. There is no 3-6 games that could "not matter that much" like in the NBA or MLB playoffs. No finality often means less ratings. People hit each other in the NFL. It's not only allowed, it's encouraged and celebrated. Guys like "legalized" fighting. It sells. It's the "man's sport" because of it. Those are much bigger reasons for NFL being extremely popular. When the Patriots dominate in early 2000, the Cowboys and Niners, or even the Steelers or Raiders in past generations, the NFL was just as popular. The #1 sport. It as much because of competitive balance as you make it out to be. I have posted before that competitive balance in the NBA does not attract the casual fan which is who brings in the money.
IMO, starting today, Hunter and Fisher will start hearing from more players around the league than before. Today was the deadline to get paid for 82 games. From now on, every two days lost is a game-check. The tire is meeting the road. The union will give in soon. If not, I think you can blame the stubbornness of the union's negotiating committee, not the players themselves. The committee's is fighting for it's own pride.
My point was merely to argue against the merits of another post claiming that guaranteed contracts actually help players to play harder. While we are on the subject, it is not just motivation, but injuries that play a factor as well. Remember in hindsight, mistakes can be made to look like intentional blunders. Trevor Ariza- Morey realized his mistake and was able to trade him while his value was somewhat in-tact. Ron Artest - He certainly was NOT living up to his contract last year. Rashard Lewis - Orlando expected a beast, but ended up getting a Rashard with serious knee problems instead. Tracy McGrady - Injuries caused the largest contract in the league at the time, to be a bench warmer. Yao Ming - Injuries to Tracy and Yao CRIPPLED our franchise. Baron Davis - Whoops. Give him a lot of money and he just doesn't care anymore. Gilbert Arenas - Remember Agent 0? Yea that didn't really work out. Just a huge contract now. Ben Gordon - Critical player for the Bulls. Signed a huge contract. Certainly hasn't lived up to the hype. Do you remember when Eddie Curry who was advised to lower his weight came to camp FATTER than the previous season? Guess what. Doesn't matter he is getting paid anyway. Teams can only "advise" their players. Remember when Pippen was with the Rockets? Who saw that coming? What happened to Stephan Marbury? After he signed a huge contract with NYK his numbers declined dramatically. At one point Zbo was widely considered an unmotivated player. This year we saw a much improved player overall, in his contract year. Brandon Roy - owed a ton of money, doubtful he will ever be the same. Charlie Villanueva - 16ppg 7rpg the year before signing a fat contract. Now 11ppg 4rpg. Enough said. Al Jefferson - Whether it was his injury, or lack of care. He is just not worth that money. Vince Carter - Still has the talent, doesn't care. Rip Hamilton essentially got paid 12mil to quit on his team. You can't tell me that guaranteed contracts don't cause problems in the NBA. How are owners comfortable guaranteeing millions to in many cases children? Perhaps the idea of guaranteeing contracts in this way was a bad idea. The NFL clearly has a better idea. Why should players expect to be given guaranteed money? Only because it is trend they feel ENTITLED to keeping.
REST? LOL - have you seen the hours that Clutch has been posting from? 1am, 2am.....that dude never sleeps !! DD
Reading comprehension. Not to go all OHMMS on you, but you have certainly proved my point. Nearly every single player on this list was a result of bad decision-making and bad management. Several of these players were injury prone BEFORE they got their contracts, some even when they were drafted, and there is a reason that many teams passed on them. The Eddy Curry ites, every SINGLE ONE, showed significant signs of being that way, BEFORE they signed their contracts. IT IS THE REASON THE KNICKS ARE SUCH A RUNNING JOKE! Marbury/Randolph/Curry/Crawford/Jeffries etc, No one in their right minds would have ever paid these players, and the Knicks were justly punished for it. Hamilton was a different matter altogether. It is apparent you didn't follow the Pistons last season. Al Jefferson is pretty darn close to worth his contract, as is Ariza, who landed us Courtney Lee. He was certainly not a dump. Rashard was a front office blunder, obviously. On and on and on. Do I have to point out why everyone of these GMs should reap what they sow?
I agree with some other people, the top players should unite and leave this league to show the owners who really has the power over the league. The owners would be nothing withotu the lieks of LBJ, Kobe, Dwight, Wade, Melo, Amare, Paul, Rose, Griffin,... It's ridiculous how the owners are behaving, they are not what attracts the people and makes money flow. ... This is a bit unrealistic, but would it be possible for the NBA players to create an own league? TV networks and sports companies would very possibly sign contracts with that league and they wouldn't have to split money with owners. Of course management and organization would need plenty money, but if there are no true owners , but wouldn't they have more income from deals with networks and sports companies to take care of the business? I'm sure there'd be dedicated people that would manage these kind of things and be willing to take a lot less $ than the current owners. Does somebody with insight on the contract situations etc. know if this could be possible to pull off?
Not want to single you out, since others have also suggested something similar. But if you even think for a little bit. How can you possibly believe this can work?
There is no chance of the top players starting their own league. The problem is they can't match the salaries that the NBA would be offering even in a new CBA. The 2nd problem is they have to pay for expenses out of their own payroll now also. If the top 20 players maintain the current BRI in a new league, they be losing money like MJ and the Bobcats. They have to start spending money on arenas, hotels, travel, equipment, marketing, additional staff like coaches, trainers, ushers, general managers, other front office staff, etc out of their own pocket. It's more profitable to collect $12-22 mil/season with no expenses, then start your own league and pay yourself $15-25 mil and pay for upgrading or building arenas, hotels, marketing, travel, equipment, additional staff like coaches, trainers, ushers, other front office staff, etc.
A lot of these arguments came up in the discussion surrounding the NHL lockout. I don't think anyone would argue with the notion that the NHL is a far stronger league now after having taken control of its revenues. It ultimately helped the overall product.
If the BRI split is only 2% off then why don't the owners just give the players the 2% so we can have basketball?? If 1% of BRI is worth $40M (per ESPN) then the players are already giving back $180M (if they drop to 52.5%). The players estimate that the owners true losses are around $100M, so they are almost giving back double that amount. That isn't enough?? Why can't the owners recognize that they have no leverage if the players actually decide they don't mind not getting paid now to protect the future. If not, then bring some scabs in and play ball. Or maybe the players should up their figure to 55% to cover for the cancelled games. See what I just did there.
The top players are too stupid to be able to put a league together, they won the DNA athletic lottery but not the intelligence side of the equation. It takes a LOT to run a league than being able to run, jump, pass and shoot....no way the top players would leave and start a league, no would any business man either because the NBA could just immediatly end the lockout and those players are all under contract. DD
