Well everything you say revolves around the players missing money now. I don't see how anyone can argue that long-term, the deal that the owners are proposing is in their best interests. From the perspective of "shutup and take millions to play ball", sure. From the perspective of "it's a good deal compared to what you have received in the past", hell no. If they are serious about holding firm then the best thing to do is do that....if they are serious about losing $$ this year. I think the courts will make the owners concede more, as they are conceding nothing now.
I was curious about KG's arrangement, so I googled it. KG and his agent were very wise compared to the rest of the NBA. KG's last 2 contract extensions have $35 million deferred, so that it would keep paying him even 7 years after the contract ends. KG won't get paid for the last year of his contract, so it lowers the compensation for the next 7 years. If the whole league had been set up to defer their compensation over the next decade, they could squeeze the owners during a lockout. Since the owners would still have to pay them, but the players would be used to living within their means. The owners would have to borrow money to make payroll, since there would be no revenue. The owners would have a lot less leverage. Silly players didn't think about that. This lockout would have been different, if 450 players(30 teams-15 players each) were going to get paid for several years. http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/steve_aschburner/10/24/lockout.notes/
A negotiation has nothing to do with both sides making concessions. It has nothing to do with getting a deal close to what the employees had before. It simply boils down to bargaining power and who has more of it. The players have no legal case for “not negotiating in good faith” because by legal definition, they have been. To me, it’s also become pretty obvious that they have no legitimate claim about the league not really losing money. The owners opened up their books to them by federal law back in July and suddenly the Union doesn’t talk about those suspicions anymore. I wonder why? This would be their biggest sticking point in this whole battle and they never seem to bring it up anymore. The players cannot win here. They are going to be hit with the reality of simple economics: you’re not worth what you think you are when your employer is losing money and their biggest financial burden is paying you.
alanhahn Alan Hahn Source confirms to Newsday that #NBA and #NBPA will resume talks Wednesday in Manhattan. #fb
I dont really know the much about the NHL lockouts (apart from the ending) but I have to agree with A3PO's position that this impasse between the NBA and its players will likely have the same result if the season is lost... ie players getting a far worst deal. Ignoring Sterns ridiculous initial demands (45 million hard cap, no guarantee contracts 57-43 BRI in owners favor) the current offer a 50/50 BRI, etc... sounds like a "fair" offer. I put fair in quotes as I don't think its a question of fair, but rather of what the market will bear. Is it really that unreasonable or unfair for the owners to demand the players take a 7% pay cut? For them to want to shorten by a year the length of guarantee contracts or increase luxury tax rates on themselves? In my opinion no, but of course if the Players Union believe otherwise and think they can really do better, then more power to them. The question is, can they really do better? Is it likely? If you had to bet or guess, will they end up like the NHL union or the NFL union, one ended in utter failure and the other with a good compromise. The NHL may not have been as popular as the NBA, but it wasnt that far off. The gap between the NFL and the NBA is HUGE, the level of pressure on the owners of the NFL was enormous with the public seemingly solidly behind the players. The government/Congress and hell even the president of the United States threatened to get involved when just the thought of games being missed. The NBA has canceled atleast 2-4 weeks of games and its seemingly barely made a splash in the public consciousness. The NFL players union succeeded through public pressure, legal pressure and market pressure, while the NHL lacked enough of all three. Perhaps Billy Hunter and the players union will ultimately succeed in this work stoppage, like many other unions before them, I just wouldn't bet on it.
WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski NBA, NBPA bargaining session Wednesday in NY will be a "small group," source says. Key NBA and union negotiators. Newsday reported meeting.
Let's see what happens. The NBA is holding off on cancelling the additional two weeks stated earlier.
MrMichaelLee Michael Lee by sam_amick Barack Obama told Jay Leno he's "concerned" about NBA losing season; feels NBA players & owners need to follow NFL's lead & get a deal done MrMichaelLee Michael Lee by sam_amick Obama: "They need to remind themselves that the reason they are so successful is because a whole bunch of folks out there love basketball." MrMichaelLee Michael Lee by sam_amick More Obama: "Basketball has actually done well, but these types of lockouts take a long time to recover from."
The owners have to make some concessions from their outrageous demands to get the players to agree to a deal. That has everything to do with a negotiation. Turning over a set of financials and opening up your books for full scrutiny aren't the same thing. I'm a CPA and trust me, you can get a set of financials or a tax return to paint whatever picture you want. For example, Enron was making tons of money according to their financials. This Larry Coon post sums it up better than I can: And here is another solid post: Employers aren't losing money. Some teams are losing money in some seasons, but the value of their franchise continues to grow. And last I checked, the NBA was still selling franchises for record setting numbers.
That's possible. I happen to think the league will truly start to negotiate as their entire strategy seems dependent on broke athletes not being able to go a season without pay. But we shall see. The owners clearly have the leverage from that standpoint. From what I have been reading, the owners never offered a 50% deal. It was 50% less some expenses, and more in the 47% range. And yes, a 7% paycut may be unreasonable if you can't justify it or if other alternatives exist to fix some of the issues (i.e. real revenue sharing). I would say the gap between the NFL and NBA in popularity is just as wide as the gap between the NBA and the NHL.
I miss NBA basketball. The two parties are supposed to resume talks today. Let's hope they hammer something out.
sportsguy33 Bill Simmons Feeling strangely optimistic about today's NBA lockout talks. They made a little ground on Monday. Not sure there as far away as we think. sportsguy33 Bill Simmons Could see players conceding 50/50 BRI, but in return they get 5 yr max deals, midlevel starting at 5m + opt-out before next TV rights deal. If the players do agree to a 50/50 split, I give them major props. Giving up 7% and I will forgive them for their stupidity. Owners need to start making some concessions as well.
