Please elaborate. What Schaub shortcomings would you pin on Kubiak? Kubiak's system has provided Schaub the opportunity to succeed wildly. He inherited a top-tier WR but otherwise, Kubiak drafted or signed the entire offensive line, which is among the best in football; signed Foster and designed the rushing attack; drafted Daniels, a top 5 TE........... There would be no "Is Schaub elite?" discussion without Kubiak, so I'm curious where he's failed him.
I believe some of the play calling is very suspect. I think Kubiak puts him in position . . .that is beyond his capabilities sometimes Rocket River
That's certainly possible - but given that Schaub routinely ranks among league leaders in nearly every single statictical passing category, how often does he do it and does it happen enough to be a factor? It goes back to my growing idea that we (sports fan collectively) have become "draft expert fans" - picking apart various mostly irrelevant things in people's games while the big picture sails by. I would never argue Kubiak is above reproach as a playcaller, nor that Schaub is perfect in his execution - but, given the offense's consistently prolific output...
I have termed it Situational failed Scoring 33 points . . is great but In that last minute of a game . .. you throw a pick 6 or the occassional half back pass into the endzone yea yea yea. . .they should not have HAD TO DO IT but when they NEEDED TO DO IT . .they failed When the pressure was on . . . they failed Rocket River
yes, and the big picture that apparently has sailed by you is that this team has never made the playoffs and until it does (which it should this year) fans will be skeptical. so you don't have to defend matt schaub at every turn or mario or kubiak or whomever else. like the rest of us you should just wait to see if the finally make it
The "last minute" pick 6, so far as I can tell, has happened once - Baltimore; the halfback pass also happened once -Jacksonville. In 2008. So you're literally listing two instances in two games over the course of five years. I appreciate you might be operating more anecdotally; but I think one thing we can accomplish here, if we're open to it, is to provide some grounding in this debate. "they" as in the Texans? Or "they" as is "Kubiak and Schaub"? Because I can't think of too many examples where "close and late" losses were on Schaub and/or Kubiak.
Schaub is a good NFL quarterback. All anyone should want in a quarterback is consistancy, as in consistently makes good decisions, and is an accurate passer. Schaub does this. he has gotten better over the past few seasons. he lacks arm strength. Body language bla bla etc, looking at him on the bench he looks like a lazy eyed psycho.
If the criteria is the bottom line, you're right. But I have a hard time putting the lack of playoffs on Schaub. Sorry; I don't think team success has anything to do with individual evaluation. I think the standard for Schaub and Mario is too high and I think far too many fans are much too black and white with Kubiak. (Though, again - if we're talking only about the bottom line, then Kubiak's much harder to defend.) As I mentioned to RR, if everyone is so dug in, there's no reason to keep beating heads against walls. But I think there's enough gray area to nudge opinions.
Why the hell is thread still alive? There should not be a debate anymore. Its simple. Schaub is good , not great. End of story.
So the private. john mcclain wrote himself a blog on Schaub's 4th qtr stats. If his research is correct, that kid matt ranks with the top six, and has one of the best Qb ratings in the fourth quarter. http://www.chron.com/sports/texans/article/NFL-stat-shows-Texans-QB-Schaub-steps-up-in-clutch-2208523.php I know, I know. Hey, bro, stats are for losers, coffee is for closers. But keep in mind that when a team has an average defense, the passer rating stat is a very telling stat, never would you see a joey harrington leading in that category. Also, I'm attempting to create my own formula. (still experimenting with it) Basically taking Rodgers passer rating stats and adding the elite 2010 Texans defensive stats. So far it has been nothing but failure.
those stats are impressive. not backtracking because i've said it before, this is the first season i've really questioned his decision making in the clutch. maybe i should just let the season play out
That's 1. We lost, and he threw a game winning pick 6. Why are you counting this? We lost, so why are you counting this? The kicker missed the FG, but he also threw an intro in the 4th. As I and Dada have pointed out, part of the boneheadedness is making mistakes to put us in these situations in the first place. We lost. He threw a pick 6 and fumbled on the next drive. Why are you counting this? That's 2. I'll give you this one, but did you see my comments about this game? Even you note that Matt didn't attempt a pass on the game winning drive. We lost. Why are you counting this? We lost. Why are you counting this? We lost. Why are you counting this? We lost and he threw a pick 6 in OT. Why in the world are you counting this? My criteria involves winning. We lost the majority of those games. If my beef is him not getting it done against good teams, I don't see how pointing to a bunch of losses against them, with him making mistakes in the majority of them, helps your argument. I think you are very generious in your definition of failure. How do you not consider the Ravens or Zona games a failure...when you end the game with a pick 6 (just an example of our disconnect)? The opponent is completely relevant. I can't believe you are even arguing that. There is a reason some teams are easy to beat and some aren't. If the opponents weren't relevant then folks wouldn't have been wondering if the Texans were "for real" after our 1st 2 games, until they saw us play NO and Pitt (to see how we squared off with them before determining if our solid start was a fluke or not). The opponent clearly matters. Those big moments against bad teams shows that he can get it done against bad teams. The multiple errors and failures against good teams shows that he typically doesn't get it done against good teams. Seems pretty basic to me and the evidence supports that.
I did not look at all those games, and frankly would agree that Schaub has some late game decision making improvement to do... BUT, if the analysis is on Schaub as a quarterback, then winning/losing shouldn't be factored as heavily. Considered, yes, but there are certainly instances where Matt may have performed in the clutch, but the team (defense, receivers, o-line, whatever) didn't. I think the Jets game last year would qualify in that regard. Even more, I think its tough to look at even the pick 6 games without context. Baltimore, Arizona from the year before. Both of those games basically turned into pass, pass, pass, pass, pass and more pass. Partly because of Schaub's and the offense's inability to perform earlier in the game, but still, it becomes a matter of numbers, of the defense at least knowing that a pass is coming, and of Schaub only being in that place in the first place because of how clutch he was during clutch moments just prior to blowing it. I also think you overrate.. to a degree.. the importance of competition. Again, just to a degree. It is definitely important. But even the best quarterbacks perform worse against better competition. Favre is obvious. Manning for sure. Some fare better than others in this regards - Brady for example - but its not like he's performed lights out the last 2 playoffs (one and done). Moreover, the Texans haven't historically been a good team. So performing in the clutch against other average teams definitely counts. And I don't think anyone is arguing to put Matt in the class of even the Brady/Mannning/Rodgers anyway. Just my two cents, but I think the above, while still understanding your position entirely, speaks to what is plainly obvious to most - Schaub falls in the next tier of QB's in the league. Some years at the top of that next tier, some years towards the bottom. Some weeks he'll be a top tier quarterback. Very very few weeks does he perform poorly. He performs average at best occasionally because of the decision making, but he's basically a fairly consistently above average, rank 6-12 type starting QB in the league. Definitely capable of taking and winning a superbowl with this team, but defense has to come through.
Schaub is a top 10 QB in the NFL, plain and simple. We are lucky not to be one of the teams with a problem in this area. He may not be a superstar franchise QB, but he's plenty good enough to get the job done.
Also, if you think Schaub has been the problem in the past couple years and not the coaching and defense, I don't just question your intelligence--I question your sanity.
