I love it when mythology like this exists, or people exaggerate or miss the context completely in order to try to make a point. Epic Fail my good man EPIC !!! DD
like DD mentioned, he's still not elite. He's an allstar who has played great in big games. To me, elite would mean he's your #1 pick to start a franchise...that's not TP and it's not schaub, but that's ok. He is still more than good enough to win with at the helm
No one posted the list - it's very long and detailed and all kinds of nerdy. The summary is: 18 "close and late" games since 2007. (And Donny and I actually did the lists independently and came up with the same # of games, minus two he overlooked – so the list is comprehensive.) He was truly bad in 2 and good/bad in 3 others (@Arizona and @Indianapolis in '09; Baltimore last year). In the other 13, he executed his end of the bargain and the team either won or lost because others did not execute (think: New York Jets last year). Yes. Unequivocally. He's been very, very good consistently. If you’re delivering in 13 of 18 “close and late” games and a big reason the game is “close and late” in 3 others (in which you put your team in position to win all 3 with only the Baltimore game truly being 100% on your shoulders… and even that has a pretty decent caveat)… I’d say you’re pretty doggone dependable.
Exactly, Sammy just has different standards of elite... Elite to me means the best of the best...hall of fame level.... Not just very good. DD
ETA: I left out the SD game last year, which *technically* ended on a Schaub pick (and also featured a failed 4th down conversion earlier). But anyone who watches the replay will clearly see that it was 100% on Andre Johnson, not Schaub. And a truly freak play, too, as AJ not only dropped a ball that hit his hands but then accidently kicked it right to a Charger defender. So I'll pull that one out as kind of being in the gray area - just to be fair. So 12 definitive great performances; two terrible ones; 3 good/bad; 1 gray area (charcoal).
I gotta see the list and go over those situations. Are they against good teams? Playoff teams? Do they include backbreaking pics he might have thrown to make the game "not close", and therefore, not included in your analysis. Or the times we may have been in a close game and the offense just stalled (not all his fault) and the game wasn't close anymore? I mean, last year we had one of the best RB's, one of the best WR's, one of the best lines....and we still had an offense that seemed to stall in big moments. Again, not all his fault....but that's the kind of thing that has folks like me saying "please let us get something" as opposed to "I know we are good" in those situations. I don't think I'm alone in feeling that way and we have that lack of faith for a reason.
October 7, 2007 @ Miami Score: 19-19 (tied) Time Remaining: 1:33 Result: Win, 22-19 Details: With 3 time-outs, Schaub completes 4/5 for 58 yards, setting-up 57-yard game winning FG with :06 remaining. == September 28, 2008 @ Jacksonville Score: 24-27, Jacksonville Time remaining: 1:43 Result: Loss, 27-30, OT Details: With 1 time-out, Schaub completes 4/5 for 50 yards, setting-up 47-yard game-tying FG with :06 remaining. Jacksonville would win in OT; Houston's offense never saw the field. == October 12, 2008 Miami Score: 23-28, Miami Time remaining: 1:40 Result: Win, 29-28 Details: With 2 time-outs, Schaub completes 4/9 for 81 yards, converts two 4th downs, and runs for the game-winning TD with :03 remaining. == December 7, 2008 @ Green Bay Score: 21-21 (tied) Time remaining: 1:49 Result: Win, 24-21 Details: With 3 time-outs, Schaub completes 4/4 for 70 yards, setting-up 40-yard game winning FG with :00 remaining. == September 20, 2009 @ Tennessee Score: 31-31 (tied) Time remaining: 7:10 Result: Win, 34-31 Details: After throwing 4 TDs in the first 3Qs, Schaub completes 2/4 for 50 yards, including a 44-yard completion, setting-up 23-yard game winning FG with 2:55 remaining. == September 27, 2009 Jacksonville Score: 24-31, Jacksonville Time remaining: 4:25 Result: Loss, 24-31 Details: Schaub completes 3/4 for 37 yards; has game-tying TD overturned by offensive penalty; Chris Brown fumbles at 1-yard line with 2:00 remaining. == October 11, 2009 @ Arizona Score: 7-21, Arizona Time remaining: 15:00 Result: Loss, 21-28 Details: On four 4Q drives, Schaub completes 20/25 for 199 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT. The interception, a pick-6, is the game-winner, breaking 21-21 tie. On ensuing drive, Schaub completes 4/5 for 39 yards; Chris Brown is stuffed at 1-yard line on 4th down with :40 remaining. == November 8, 2009 Indianapolis Score: 17-20, Indianapolis Time remaining: 1:46 Result: Loss, 17-20 Details: After throwing 4Q INT, Schaub, with no time-outs, completes 8/8 for 61 yards, setting up a 42-yard game tying FG, which Kris Brown misses with :01 remaining. == November 23, 2009 Tennessee Score: 17-20, Tennessee Time remaining: 00:47 Result: Loss, 17-20 Details: With 2 time-outs, Schaub completes 3/3 for 31 yards, setting up a 49-yard game tying FG, which Kris Brown misses with :01 remaining. == November 29, 2009 Indianapolis Score: 20-21, Indianapolis Time remaining: 8:24 Result: Loss, 27-35 Details: Schaub throws a pick-6 and then fumbles, down 8, on the ensuing drive, sealing Colts’ comeback win. == December 20, 2009 @ St. Louis Score: 13-13 (tied) Time remaining: 8:07 Result: Win, 16-13 Details: In an otherwise lackluster effort by the team, Schaub completes 3/4 for 76 yards, setting up 28-yard game winning FG with 4:36 remaining. == January 3, 2010 New England Score: 13-27 Time remaining: 14:04 Result: Win, 34-27 Details: Schaub completes 7/11 for 85 yards and 1 TD in the 4Q. After a Texan INT, Arian Foster runs four times on game-winning drive; Schaub does not attempt a pass. == September 19, 2010 @ Washington Score: 17-27 Time remaining: 13:15 Result: Win, 30-27, OT Details: Schaub leads two 4Q scoring drives, including a game-tying 34-yard TD pass on 4th-and-10 with 2:03 remaining. On the game-winning drive in OT, Schaub goes 3/4 for 35 yards including a 3rd down conversion. == November 7, 2010 San Diego Score: 23-29 Time remaining: 5:17 Result: Loss, 23-29 Details: Schaub hits 4/5 for 47 yards to drive to the San Diego 38 but an intentional grounding and failed 4th and 2 sneak stall the drive. With 3:06 remaining, Schaub hits 4/6 for 58 yards to drive the Texans to the San Diego 28. His 7th pass is tipped and then kicked into the air by Andre Johnson and intercepted. == November 14, 2010 @ Jacksonville Score: 17-24 Time remaining: 6:57 Result: Loss, 24-31 Details: Schaub connects on 2/3 for 37 yards, including a game-tying 18-yard TD with 4:19 remaining. A pass interference call aided the drive (22 yards), though off-setting penalties wiped out an earlier TD pass to Andre Johnson. With 1:34 remaining, Schaub hits 5/6 for 27 yards, driving to the Jacksonville 45 when Joel Dressen fumbles. The Jaguars complete a last-second… I can’t even finish this one. == November 21, 2010 @ New York Jets Score: 7-23 Time remaining: 14:51 Result: Loss, 27-30 Details: Schaub connects on 8/10 for 163 yards and 1 TD in the 4Q, wiping out a 16-point deficit and giving Houston a 24-23 lead, which becomes 27-23 after a late Texan interception and FG, and then…… == December 2, 2010 @ Philadelphia Score: 24-27 Time remaining: 13:04 Result: Loss, 24-34 Details: Two 4Q drives stall, sandwiched around an Eagle TD. Schaub goes 5-10 for 41 yards, a failed 4th down conversion and a fumble. == December 13, 2010 Baltimore Score: 13-28 Time remaining: 11:03 Result: Loss, 28-34, OT Details: Schaub leads two 4Q scoring drives of 99- and 95-yards, hitting 17/22 for 160 yards and 2 TDs, the second of which, combined with a 2-point conversion, ties the score at 28 with :21 remaining. Schaub throws a game-winning pick-6 in OT. == December 26, 2010 @ Denver Score: 23-24 Time remaining: 3:02 Result: Loss, 23-24 Details: Schaub hits on 4/6 for 44 yards, driving the Texans to the Denver 39 before throwing an interception.
I put the Charger game in there, simply because he was so good in that game, particularly the last 5 minutes, until the AJ-doink-pick. Icehouse, for reference, here's my previous post on the subject.
Oh no, no - it's in there; I just meant I included it among his "13" very good performances and... technically, it kind of falls... wherever. He wasn't great, per se - but AJ robbed an opportunity to close the deal.
8 of 12 for 106 yards isn't great? dude went over the entire length of the field in the final 5 minutes of that game. i still hate kubiak for having him try that failed qb sneak when we had arian ripping them for over 5 yards a carry. if it's one thing matt is not, it's a pile mover. hell, he might as well be wearing cement shoes.
Ehhhhh... I'm trying to appear fair and balanced. He didn't convert the 4th down and *did* throw an INT.... Something this *vitally* important... I don't want Icehouse to think we're stacking the deck. Plus, weren't they up 23-14? I know the defense lost the lead but........
The chargers were up by 4 at that point. That was the game where Rivers completely owned our secondary and some guy no one had ever heard of had 3 TDs. Our redzone offense struggled after the 1st quarter, but the point is, when the game was on the line, Schaub was nails. I don't expect him to move a pile, nor can I blame him for that pick. Anybody should look at that game as evidence that Matt can git r dun in the final moments of a game (through the air).
Hey at least you have changed your tune on Schaub. This all started bc of your post that wreaked of smugness. Let's just forget that you proclaimed Schaub was mediocre at best.
There fixed it for ya. :grin: that was every game. Rodgers' eliteness wouldn't have provided any more wins for the texans last year. I feel that people automatically relate the 6-10 record to schaub. right now he is top 10. He gets a couple of wins in the playoffs and people will start putting him in the top six.
Thanks for putting this together. My comments are bolded below. I don't see how that list gives you confidence in Matt to make it happen against good teams. It actually looks like support that he is prone to crucial mistakes when facing these types of opponents. That doesn't mean he sucks or isn't a good QB (I think he is). But I definately wouldn't consider him "clutch" and when we are in the situation like we were 2 weeks ago (need plays against a good team), I have more fear than confidence.
Just to Poke and Prod this debate What are your thoughts on Matt Hasselbeck. He seems to be having a resurgence this season or was he lost in Seattle and being underrated? Where do you see him versus Schaub? Is his career Schaub's ceiling . . . I schaub 'clearly' the better of the two now? Rocket River just sparking convo
I think you might be surprised if you looked at the "clutch" situation resumes of the so-called "elite" qbs. You might look at Schaub a LOT differently, then.
