Why are you your only frame of reference? "I... I... I..." Sure there will be others who feel the way you do. And there will be others who don't. Are they somehow less legitimate? Logical fallacy: misrepresent the other argument. No one here has said they're "alright, brah". No one has turned coat on whether they hate the Cowboys. So please, don't waste anyone's time with crap like this. Also, I don't hate the people of Dallas. The Cowboys and Mavericks, of course, and I certainly enjoy exchanging some good-natured smack talk, but hating people is a little creepy.
And one more thing: I *still* hate the freaking Jazzholes more than the Mavs. Are you kidding me??? Up until the German Giant showed up, and their prima donna owner, the Mavs were just as minute of an irrelevant afterthought as the Rangers. They would be one of the teams I would *forget* when I tried to list the WC teams in my head. But it's going to take them having a couple pricks like Stockton/Malone/Sloan for a decade-and-a-half, and a few playoff wars mixed in, before I get nearly as irritated with the Mavs as I am with the Jazz. WC Finals, Jazz v. Mavs: if it ever happened, I'd throw up. And I'd root for the Mavs. Screw the Jazz, and the horse they rode in on.
On the same vein: Rangers in the WS versus the Braves, Cubs, Dodgers, or Mets. Go Rangers. Every day, and twice on Sunday. It is always a good day in baseball when the Braves, Cubs, Dodgers, or Mets lose. Screw them, and their horses, too.
If the Yankees were a football team, yes. But in general, the baseball "hatred" is much more muted than football hatred. The point was that it has less to do with location than it does what the team represents. I'm taking that to the next level: I don't think location matters *at all*. as demonstrated by Mavs vs. Jazz. The Jazz were hated rivals after they beat us in one playoff series too. Astros fans don't even hate the Rangers, in a general sense, right now. I'd venture to guess quite a few of them rooted for the Rangers during the last World Series in a "pro-Texas" sort of way. But yes, I agree that it's all arbitrary. What isn't arbitrary is that it took 40 years to get all the rivals the Astros have today. To get to that same point with the same level of history and animosity with a whole new set of teams, regardless of what particular teams end up being the rivals, probably takes that same amount of time. I disagree. The Cowboys, because of their unique position in the NFL, are hated no matter what. The minute the Mavs suck again, they'll be completely forgotten as a rival. That's just like our baseball rivalries with the Braves and Cardinals. There's no hard-core hatred there. They are our "enemy" because they beat us and are good, but that's about it.
There is *some* hard-core hatred for Baseball franchises. Maybe not up to "America's Team" level, but it's there. Like the Cardinals, I'll agree with you. But many people around here hate the Braves and Cubs and Mets, and probably will continue to do so no matter what happens with our Astros. For us older farts, you can add the Dodgers into that mix. Still can't stand Steve Garvey's smug prick-face.
This may be location specific, but a lot of Astro fans in Austin hate the Rangers right now. I loved to watch the Astro prospects in Round Rock. Now, I am limited to when Oklahoma City is in town.
The Rockets used to be in the Eastern Conference, they lost the EC finals to the 76ers on a John Lucas charging call back in the day... DD
On the flip side, all the extra coverage the team would get by playing the Red Sox and Yankees would mean more nationally televised games. HEHE DD
Not until we stop sucking. When the Astros are in NY, the national game will be Boston @ Tampa, or Boston @ Texas, or Boston @freaking KC. And vice-versa, too. I think the angle of what the Astros stand to gain by sharing a league with the two NE powerhouses is way, way overplayed.
You're avoiding a rather simple question: in Houston, do as many people hate the Yankees as much as people hate the Cowboys? The answer is no and it's not even close - you know this, I know this - every one reading this thread knows it. And the reason is: Dallas. People here hate Dallas. You tried to equate hatred for the Yankees in Houston to hatred for the Cowboys, msn. Talk about crap... Said the guy who has spent roughly 7,652 pages talking about what a scumbag Bud Selig is... OK. A vast majority of, I guess "creepy" people in Houston dislike Dallasites. This should not be news to anyone.
If the Yankees were a football team? What if the Rangers were a football team????? That's such all kinds of silly.... And BS, anyway - we hate the Dallas Cowboys because of the Dallas, not the Cowboys. And that's because its close enough that Cowboy fan rhetoric too often spills into Houston - they're broadcast here, covered here and have a large following here. I cannot believe we're having to hash out Houston's LONGSTANDING hatred of Dallas. Come on... Agree to disagree. Especially when the potential new rivalry is steeped in an already simmering dislike such as Houston/Dallas. Ehh... not really. They played back in '85 - it wasn't terribly heated. That was pre-Sloan, Malone & Stockton, IIRC. It was the repeated regular season battles and then the '94-'98 playoff years that really solidified that hatred. Plsu; Slaon, Malone and Stockton. Those guys could have played in Poland and we would have hated them. Why would they? Mostly irrelevant, different leagues. No, they did not. What rivalry did the Astros have with the Braves prior to '97? Or the Cards prior to 2000 when both were finally good simultaneously? Simply playing each other, with no stakes, does not a rivalry make. I promise that if the Astros and *any* one of the AL West teams do battle for the division and/or meet in the playoffs in years 1 and 2 after the move to the AL that that team will be on par with Atlanta, St. Louis.... To argue otherwise is to argue that the move will zap passion for the Astros among the fans. There's a special brand of unique hatred for the Cowboys here in Houston. Otherwise, I don't get your point: I've always argued competition trumps all when it comes to establishing rivalries. So...
I avoided nothing. You did not pose any question. You responded to something in the discussion with a litany of "I" this and "I" that statements. Just checking to see if you're aware of, and willing to validate or at least acknowledge, other viewpoints. No one tried to equate it. Keep on misrepresenting the argument though; it's a lot easier for you to knock your stawman over than what people here are actually saying. Touché! But you said, "We hate the people of Dallas..." Really? Even the family you have up there? Takes it a little far, don't you think? If you meet someone who says he's from Dallas, do you instantly dislike him? Just because of where he's from? Do you dislike Hunter Pence?
I disagree. The Cowboys have a large following *everywhere* (a lot like the Yankees). There are a lot of people I've spoken to who hate on the Cowboys purely because of the "America's Team" schtick, or because of Jerry Jones. Not to say that the Dallas thing doesn't play into it (of course it does!), but I think you have it overplayed here. Translated: "I cannot believer everyone here doesn't feel exactly the way I feel about Dallas!!! What is wrong with you people???? As you've repeated your position on this issue here, I will repeat my counter-position. While those opponents certainly are not Sox-Yankees vilified "rivalries", there is absolutely a history with them as opponents that a lot of fans remember and value. A few weeks ago, perhaps in this thread, you quipped that nobody could probably remember even one meaningful moment against the Cardinals prior to 1994. Off the top of my head, without asking my friend Google, I replied to you with like half a dozen. Because, believe it or not, everybody doesn't follow baseball exactly the way Ric does.
Somehow it has become a "rule" that you have to have "playoff battles" to hate a team. Either "playoff battles", or they have to be in Dallas, or they have to be overexposed by ESPN. Where did these rules come from? I will tell you that in the 80s, long before '97, '99, and '01, a lot of us hated the Braves. Hated them. Pascual Perez, Rafael Ramirez, Dale Murphy, Bob Horner, Gene Garber, etc. Hated them all (in a sporting sense!). And, we hated the Dodgers long before 1980. Remember how sweet it was when JR dominated them almost every time out in the late 70s? It was so sweet, 'cause we hated those pricks. :grin:
Actually, I kind of did. Repeatedly: And then after your first dodge: Sure – and which viewpoint is that? That you hate the Yankees as much, or more, than the Cowboys? OK. Acknowledged. And I still maintain that you would be among a very small minority in Houston who feel that way. You should go back and reread the thread… Originally Posted by Ric And are you suggesting the level of hatred here in Houston for the Yankees is equal to the level of hatred for the Cowboys? Originally Posted by msn Have you not been paying attention? They are constantly referred to as the "Evil Empire", the "Yankmees", etc. There is *plenty* of Yankee hate to go around here. Was that not an attempt to equate it? Yes. Yes. Yes. I don’t know him – is he from Dallas? Then yes. This isn’t about the Cowboys’ (or Yankees’) perception elsewhere; it’s about how they’re perceived here in Houston. I don’t care what a random person in St. Louis might think because it has no relevance. People *here* HATE Dallas and HATE the Cowboys. Ask Carl Mauck. Are you going to argue I’m in the minority? Your meaningful Cardinal moments are not universally-shared Astro meaningful moments, msn; they’re yours. Yet you have no issue deploying them as proof that, man, oh man! Do the Astros have a rich NL history. I will promise to try and tone down the absolutes – but maintain that, in my Astro fan experience – which included newspapers, talk shows and eventually the internet (which I discovered in ’97), the Cardinals were an afterthought until roughly 2001-ish. And that it heated up quickly and almost instantly extinguished in roughly 2007.
Major made that rule (up). I've only maintained healthy, heated competition. And that wasn't a component of WTBS and exposure? Why else would you hate an otherwise universally terrible and irrelevant franchise? Yeah, you generally hate a team in your division; especially the consistently *best* team in your division.
