Tyrannical Selig Forcing Crane to Move us to AL

You're estimating it'll "do nothing" for you, aren't you?

As the move to the Central proved, rivalries will form - if you're good. Add in our built-in hatred for Dallas and their frontrunning fans and I just think you're being way too dismissive of how potentially cool a rivalry with the Rangers could be. You're telling me you couldn't muster hatred for a Dallas professional sports team??

Now? Yeah, sure - it does nothing. The Astros are terrible and have mostly been irrelevant for five years, and the Rangers were that way for the 25 years prior to that. But I'm guessing a lot of people would have said, "The Cardinals? They do nothing for me" way back in 1994. Get good and you'll forge rivalries.

 

do. not. want. A. L. baseball. potential rivalry with a team i don't care about isn't enough for me to feel differently about that.

 

Hurry up and bring in AL ball. I have hated the pitcher in the batting order since I was a kid. A lot may like it and may feel like they are ruining the game but I love HR battles not stikeout fest.

Maybe it's because I'm under 30.

 

I suppose everyone has their issues. For some its about Crane, some about a move to the AL, the style of play, the rivalries, our NL history. Any or all of these are legitimate.

But for me, I dont want the Astros in a west coast league (AL or NL) because of the road game start times. I go to bed early and will miss entirely games beginning at 9:15 or 9:30 central time.

I know, its entirely a selfish reason and really doesnt consider whats best for the Astros. Its just most of the other reasons dont make much difference to me in the near future because no matter who were playing, in what league we play in, or what time the games start, we are going to be losing a lot. We are not going to have true rivals, not going to have to worry about which division we have the best chance to win, none of this is going to matter for a good while.

So other than what gives me the most opportunity to see them, the only other thing that matters is what moves get us out of the cellar the quickest and in a sustainable way.

 

Max beat me to it: "do. not. want. A. L. baseball. potential rivalry with a team i don't care about isn't enough for me to feel differently about that."

You keep bringing up rivalries. Sure, contentious battles will form, and there will be interesting series with foes once the Astros get good.

But my ears *still* get pinned back, even in a 100+ loss season, when the opponents are the Dodgers or Braves or Cardinals. Or the Phillies or the Mets. Or the Reds. Because I've got nearly fifty years of history with those teams to shape how I feel. Not expecting you or anyone else to feel the same way, or agree. It's a discussion board; this is my angle. That's all.

I already hate Dallas teams. Doesn't mean I want to see them 30 times a year. Especially playing Jr. Circuit homerun derby yawnfests. I like baseball, not gimmick-ball.

Maybe so, but I was pumped up (except for the non-balanced schedule). I had a respect for the Cardinals organization after my team had played them for over 30 years. I remembered plenty of battles with Forsch, Smith, Herr, Hernandez, Coleman, and the like. Didn't mind the Cubs or Pirates, for similar reasons.

From what I see, Ric, you could enjoy the possible "rivalry" (all five minutes of it) that could develop between two Texas teams assuming they both get good and have to best one another to make the playoffs. I get it, and I'll not try to talk you out of it. It just doesn't do anything for me, though. The Rangers could join the NLC, and I still wouldn't give a rip. They're the Rangers, for heaven's sake. Up until two years ago, they were the very definition of irrelevant.

 

I love my team winning. Whether that was no-hitting the Yankees, or watching us beat the Bravos 7-6. I love baseball. Who cares if the pitcher hits? It is more exciting than a Brad Ausmus GIDP any day of the week. :grin:

I strongly favor having the pitcher hit, and I'm 25. It is just a personal preference on whether you prefer softball or baseball.

 

But you will care. (Assuming the move to the AL doesn't suck the life out of your fanship.) NL history, the DH, West Coast games - I think they're all legitimate concerns (not that there are *any* illegitimate concerns with this issue).

But rivalries will absolutely, positively be created from this move. You will care about the Rangers and/or Angels and/or Mariners and/or A's.

 

you may be right. i still have no interest in seeing my team move to the AL. do. not. want.

 

And your ears will eventually get pinned back when we play the Rangers, et al, on a regular basis. Right? Are you contending you’ll no longer be a fan?

No one here *cared* about the St. Louis Cardinals until they moved into our division in 1994. No one. They were an anonymous, innocuous team we played 13 times a year with virtually no other discernible history. Go ahead, name *any*thing memorable that occurred between the two teams from ’62-’93……..

(And, psst - you'll still play NL teams, FYI.)

msn, you know how you (rightly) go round and round with those harboring the long-entrenched idea that Drayton McClane is cheap?....... This idea that the AL is a "homerun derby yawnfest" is not even remotely accurate anymore. It has been summarily dismissed often.

Yeah, msn - 30 years. That's my disconnect: You're trying to compare 30 years of history to 0 years of history (more or less) - of course you're going to prefer the 30 years. And that's fine; I'm not arguing it's irrelevant - only that, 30 years from now, you'll feel the same way about the Rangers, Angels, Tigers, Rays........

I'm an Astros fan, not an NL fan - I have no allegiance to any team or league above the Astros. So if they're playing team X in league Y on a consistent basis and team X is thumping us and keeping us from reaching our goal as a team... I'm going to dislike them. Period.

I contend only that you can miss the NL *and* at least intellectually understand (and embrace) that you will eventually get on board with whatever/wherever the Astros go. Because I’m guessing you’ll still be a fan no matter what, right?

 

Sorry, reread this and, oh boy - that could be wildly misconstrued since the Cards are obviously NL royalty. Try this: "They were an anonymous, innocuous team we played 13 times a year with virtually no other discernible history, *from the Astros' perspective.*

 

AL has a 154 HR average compared to 137 in the NL.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/team/_/stat/batting/sort/homeRuns/order/true

Interesting is that in 2008, the AL had 162 compared to 163 for the NL. The NL actually had a sizeable advantage in 2007, but it looks like generally the AL has more.

 

4 of the top 5 play in the AL East. Of course they have some easier stadiums to hit HRs.

 

NL is averaging 4.12 HRs/game; 8.6 hits with a .710 OPS. AL = 4.46, 8.83, .730. And that's with the AL having a decided advantage with the DH.

They're virtually identical leagues.

 

Nope. There's something, Ric, about the "villains" a kid latches onto--or maybe it was just this kid--during formative years of "fandom". So George Foster, Dave Concepcion, Dale Murphy, Fernando Valenzuela, Steve Sax, Ryne Sandberg, Bob Forsch, Vince Coleman, I could go on and on and on. And believe it or not, when the Astros play these teams I enjoy the game in the context of who these foes have been the entire time I've cared about the game. Thirty years from now, I can promise you: the Dodgers, Braves, Mets, Giants, and Cardinals (et. al.) will still hold a place with me that other teams could not.

Of course not. I'll be around. I'll enjoy pennant chases and playoff races, assuming they get that good again. I'll enjoy the discussion. And, I'll always prefer the NL. So sue me.

Wrong again. I had their entire lineup memorized for years. I rooted *hard* for the Brewers in '82, 'cause I hated the Cardinals. Perhaps you don't remember that scheduling wasn't quite as unbalanced in those days? We got a steady diet of all the teams in our league. And yes, I remember Vince Coleman stealing 2nd and scoring on a Willie McGee single more than a few times. I remember Todd Worrell coming in and thinking, "well that's the game." I remember Jack Clark going deep on us and Ozzie Smith doing his damned back-flip after starting a double-play. Once I remember Ozzie going deep on us and thinking, "ok we suck for sure now." I remember Art Howe "retiring" and then coming back with the Cardinals and hating him for that. Bob Forsch pitching against Ken Forsch. Enough memories for you?

I can intellectually grasp that things can develop. New traditions, new "rivalries" (if we must call it that), etc. I can intellectually grasp that attendance and interest might improve if the Rangers and Astros had some sort of contentious playoff battle (who wouldn't appreciate that?). What I'm wondering, based on how hard you're working on this, if you can intellectually grasp that I simply don't like American League "baseball" and that the Rangers will never do for me what the teams I grew up with did?

psst: drop the condescending BS.

This is exactly right. It was a lazy comment on my part and I know better. The DH still sucks, however. As an aside, I'm curious as the SLG and RS between leagues and whether the gulf is very wide.

 

Just saw this after I hit "reply". Good timing!

I guess you mean statistically? Because the game plays quite a bit differently when you have 12 or 13 guys who only play half the game.

 

Drayton still confident about the sale. "I feel very confident. I dont see any issues that would stop Crane from buying the Astros." McLane says he has no backup plan. "Zero."


Has this played out long enough yet?

 

Not really, no. Too close-minded, IMO. I'm a bigger football fan than baseball - I grew up HATING the Pittsburgh Steelers. Hate, Hate, Hate. But once they plopped the Texans in a decidedly Steeler-free division, my hatred gradually subsided. (It actually began when the Oilers left town and, minus twice-yearly Oiler-Steeler games, I just lost interest in the vitriol. Actually... it *really* started when Pittsburgh slipped into a near decade-long stretch of irrelevance in the 80s.)

I can now say without reservation that I hate the Colts - a team I had very nearly zero history with - more than the Steelers, despite the Texans having never meant near as much to me as the Oilers did. That's not to say I hate the Colts now more than I hated the Steelers then - but things change; we evolve; and we eventually adopt that which is new.

 

ric, i enjoy your analysis of others' desires for their favorite ball club to remain an NL club after 50 years of NL history. it's like darryl morey analyzing love. of course, it does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to change my feelings on the matter, but by all means, continue!!! :grin: