Obama praised Solar Cell firm goes bust..costs tax payers $500 million

Why are the items on that chart considered boondoggles? Are the same people complaining about every single Humvee not being armored now saying money spent to save military lives are wastes?

 

There is no such thing as Cap and Tax. That is some sort of Right wing nutery like saying Obama is a muslim.

With Cap and Trade isn't about funding clean energy, it's about rewarding clean energy firms to curb global warming.

I am talking about investing in green energy to keep the U.S. as a leader and give us a technology advantage....not to environmentally friendly. Big difference

 

If you charge for the carbon credits, it is a tax. How is that nuttery.

 

gov't doesn't charge. It just issues the credits. If a business exceeds them, they have to go buy more from other businesses. Gov't in not getting revenue from this.

You are confusing this with a carbon tax.

 

You might want to read what the actual plan was. I agree, you are describing Cap and trade, but the plan they wanted to pass had them charging. That is the reason it never passed.

 

Well, the GOP is now calling it a carbon tax, even though it was their idea originally, for what it's worth.

 

ACES? There was no tax in there. It was actually watered down Cap & Trade and was supported by oil companies and industries for that reason. They were no "charging" - they were auctioning off the credits.

I think you are mixing this one up with some of the other plans pushed by smaller groups.

 

Auctioning off the credit, but they were not making revenue? Your logic does not compute.

 

I am willing to say that perhaps this was a bad bet on the Admin's part and they should've done their due diligence on this but I think it is foolish to just try to leave the development of renewable energy purely to the market. I think it is even more foolish to continue arguing about whether Athropogenic Global Warming is actually happening rather than taking steps to address when other benefits besides reducing greenhouse gases are enough to justify that.

 

Yes they are and their is a delegation from Edmonton here really pushing the oil sands. That said the difference between the US and PRC is that politicians in the US are arguing about whether Anthropogenic Global Warming is even happening and making it a political issue. As far as I can tell there is no debate about that in the PRC. While they understand they need energy they also are aware of the consequences of it. Even as they use more fossil fuels they are actively taking steps to eventually move off of dependence of fossil fuels.

While that might take them a long long time the difference is they are willing to think long term about it while we as a country are not.

 

this is one thing i'll give the socialists or communists or whatever, that form of governing is actually proactive, which is ironic, because in america we worship being proactive. but our government is reactive

 

How is that ironic? When the government owns the businesses, of course they are going to be proactive. If our government owned our businesses, do you think they would be labeling them as big evil greedy corporations to pander to the voters? Naturally our government is going to be reactive.

The difference is, in a free market economy, the individual will be willing to strive harder since s/he is getting the reward.

 

That is correct. If you have an issue with it, you can do your homework.

 

No i think you need to. The money for the auction goes to the government.

 

I don't mind the government giving grants for R&D, but we generally should not be propping up businesses.

My problem with AGW is how it has become a religion. AGW is real, but the unknown is how serious it is on the planet. If people like Gore had their way, they would wreck our economy just to get their policies in place.

On the flip side, you have people like Rush who think they have a 'right or freedom' to do whatever they want, everyone else be damned. That mindset irritates me just as much as those who want to tax or regulate the offenders out of business, even though they partake in the benefits of these corporations/businesses.

The truth of the matter is the best thing we can do starts with each individual. Renewable energy is just a fraction of the difference we can make if everyone would cut back on their personal consumption.

 

It was a risky investment. Solar energy has no place in this country's future. Obviously natural gas is a big part of the USA's energy future. The $500 million would have been better invested in the Eagle Ford, or in building a Third Generation nuclear reactor which the government ought to be doing.

26 US states' primary method of electricity generation is coal, 11 natural gas, 8 nuclear, 4 hydroelectric and 1 (plus DC) petroleum. Where does our government, the government of the states get off giving half-a-billion dollar loans to solar energy companies? Solar energy accounts for 3% of the annual USA electricity generation.

 

It's about the future, not the present.

What if petroleum reserves are finite? What if there is a regime change in Saudi Arabia that no longer wants to support the US?

What if climate change results in major cities on the coastlines going under water, if the weather of 2011 becomes the norm? (we will be riding camels across the Texas Desert)

It might a good idea to have a back-up plan. The money the government spent on Solyndra is about the equivalent of me buying a flashlight to prepare for hurricane season, 1.3 % of the green energy initiative.

But no, let's just continue to be cheap and stupid.

 

the free market built the railroad. the free market built power lines.

the free market
the free market
the free market
the free market
the free market

 

That's only if they go over the cap! Everyone is allowed to release a certain amount, but if you release more you need a permit. You can buy a permit through auction or from someone with access cap.

Not sure why you keep calling it a tax. Is getting a DL a tax when you pay for it?

You really don't know what a tax is do you?

 

If they sell 100% of the permits it is exactly like a tax. If they don't sell any then it is not like a tax. If they sell 30% of the permits, then it bends the curve towards a tax accordingly.

And your DL is a terrible analogy.