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The American Jobs Act

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by SacTown, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Member

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    Why do you guys bother arguing with Commodore?
     
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  2. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    I am not arguing, just talking condescendingly at him and about him.
     
  3. TexasFight

    TexasFight Member

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    What was the "public transit project in Houston that will free up some of the worst traffic congestion in the country" that BO was referring to in the speech???
     
  4. brantonli24

    brantonli24 Member

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    This is completely ridiculous. You'll invest it yourself? I'm sorry, but sometimes, you've got to think about the greater good, and I think poor Africans are hardly going to start AIDS research centers and invest their grain crops into scientific research.
     
  5. LScolaDominates

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    Free advice: try not to start your post with vacuous dogma. You will sound like less of a complete moron if you bury it further down.

    Why not?

    Sure, but that could be anybody's profit--the grocery store's, the home builder's, the toll road owner's. People have to buy stuff for other people to make profits, right?

    Also, poor roads increase transport costs. Therefore, fixing roads increases profits. Do you not agree?

    You didn't listen to the speech. Obama specifically advocated freeing up capital by lowering the corporate tax rate and removing subsidies to "favored constituencies."

    This whole trend of false attribution and disingenuous ideological dogmatism is baffling to me. You have no reason to oppose Obama's plan. It's paid for. It takes on entitlement sacred cows. It both lowers tax rates and simplifies the tax code. What the **** more do you people want?

    Again, you obviously didn't listen to the speech, as it included permanent measures as well as temporary. Plus, those temporary rebates will keep people out of poverty, which is a good thing in itself and for the economy as a whole.

    Ah, close with the same bull**** you opened with. Why don't you try giving your President some ****ing credit, brah? At least on the points where you agree with him (the horror!).
     
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  6. Anticope

    Anticope Member

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    It’s time for the Democrats to start playing the political games that the Republicans are so adept at playing. Present a jobs bill, let the Republicans say no, present another jobs bill and so on and so forth. At some point people have to see that the GOP doesn’t not give a **** about 95% of this country. The Republicans currently care nothing about the well-being of our country, they just care about setting themselves up for the next election cycle.

    It was just mind-boggling to watch them sitting there tonight with somber expressions on their faces while listening to the president talk about putting Americans back to work. The blatant partisanship that they constantly champion is such a disease to this country, that I can’t believe anyone in their right mind would vote for any of these clowns. I really don’t know what their endgame is here, because once they are back into power, they will have to put their policies into place which will only further deepen our recession. I’ve always been fascinated by our political system, but this side of it just makes me sick to my stomach.
     
  7. JeffB

    JeffB Member

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    Capitulation. Not compromise. Not making proposals that largely consist of their policy ideas. Just complete capitulation and confirmation of their dogma. Join them in calling their view right.


    The question recurs, what will satisfy them? Simply this: We must not only let them alone, but we must somehow, convince them that we do let them alone. This, we know by experience, is no easy task. We have been so trying to convince them from the very beginning of our organization, but with no success. In all our platforms and speeches we have constantly protested our purpose to let them alone; but this has had no tendency to convince them. Alike unavailing to convince them, is the fact that they have never detected a man of us in any attempt to disturb them.

    These natural, and apparently adequate means all failing, what will convince them? This, and this only: cease to call slavery wrong, and join them in calling it right. And this must be done thoroughly - done in acts as well as in words. Silence will not be tolerated - we must place ourselves avowedly with them. Senator Douglas' new sedition law must be enacted and enforced, suppressing all declarations that slavery is wrong, whether made in politics, in presses, in pulpits, or in private. We must arrest and return their fugitive slaves with greedy pleasure. We must pull down our Free State constitutions. The whole atmosphere must be disinfected from all taint of opposition to slavery, before they will cease to believe that all their troubles proceed from us.

    http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm
     
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  8. LScolaDominates

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    Because pathetic assholes like yourself and Ayn Rand invariably come crying for your handouts when you need them, too.

    It would totally irresponsible, not to mention tremendously inefficient, of us as a nation to deal with social challenges--aging populations, temporary disability, cyclical unemployment, etc.-- on an ad hoc basis.
     
  9. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    Eh, everyone likes to characterize their beliefs as pragmatic and their opponents' as strident. I just stick to arguing the merits.

    Because you are expending wealth to pay for something that doesn't generate wealth.

    Obama thinks jobs are an end in themselves, when they are supposed to be a means to growth. Otherwise you eventually end up with no money in the treasury, but some nice bridges and roads.

    The question is how would that money be best spent. Our lack of growth is not due to poor roads. It would be wasteful to expend capital on them. I don't know of a single company that is clamoring for more bridges so they can expand and hire (maybe a trucking company?).

    The payroll tax cut is fine and I think you will see the GOP sign on to that, but it's the corporate income tax rate that is hurting us competitively. It's the highest in the world.

    It won't generate economic growth and it increases the deficit.

    No it isn't. POTUS just says for Congress to figure out how to pay for it. Of course it will be phantom cuts in out years that are nonbinding and will never happen.

    No it doesn't. No changes to SS or Medicare in this plan.

    It lowers the payroll tax rate, which is fine. I don't see any simplifications to the tax code in his proposal.

    The tax code needs to be scrapped entirely, replace with a low flat, nondeductible rate (even better would be a sales tax). Simple, effective. Will never happen because the tax code is the main source of power and graft in DC.


    Correct, I didn't listen to the speech, just read the fact sheet.

    The payroll tax cut has been in place for awhile and unemployment isn't improving. It's a small incentive to hire next to massive disincentives.

    Credit for what? Vague promises of tax simplification and regulatory reduction? Things are worse now than when he took office. We're nearly three years into his presidency.

    Disagree with the premise that collaboration is impossible without coercion.
     
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  10. SWTsig

    SWTsig Member

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    it's cute watching the libertarians espouse their fantastical ideology.

    i remember when i was in college.
     
  11. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Eric Cantor: Looking like a season. how u.

    https://twitter.com/#!/EricCantor

    Cantor obviously is referring to agreeing with a few tax-cuts and right-wing-type stuff and blocking all of the rest of the bill. However, I think it's interesting he's trying hard not to look like an obstructionist even while he, you know, obstructs. Seems he's been reading the polls telling him that ideological Tea-bagging isn't a winning strategy for 2012, people are beginning to question their loyalty to this country.
     
    #31 Carl Herrera, Sep 8, 2011
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2011
  12. LScolaDominates

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    Cool, then get back to me when you have the requisite experience to contribute to this discussion.
     
  13. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Right wingers don't need experience. They have faith-- in God or Rand or whatever it is they believe in.
     
  14. what

    what Member

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    Great speech.

    By all accounts this speech was historic and it will go down in history as one of the greatest speeches of all time. With hints to "I have a dream" in it, Harry Truman and Lincoln.

    Pass this bill, indeed!

    GREATTT SPEEECH
     
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  15. Commodore

    Commodore Member

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    the fact sheet released by the White House is more detailed than the speech
     
  16. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    Ireland has a pretty low corporate tax rate. In fact it is known for it tax loopholes. Go checkout their unemployment rates.

    You want to know what the corporate tax rate is in the Bahamas? I wonder why their economy isn't booming?

    San Francisco has among the highest tax rates in the country. How come all these startups want to start there?

    Even if your argument was true let us look at a company like Boeing. They paid their CEO more than they did in taxes. They get a good chunk on money from government contracts.

    The greatest creator of wealth in the last twenty or so years has been the internet. You want to know who laid the ground work for that? I'll let you look that up.
     
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    He only wants to pass the stuff he agrees with?

    That's weird.
     
  18. Zboy

    Zboy Member

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    Excellent plan!

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/dani...ical-450-billion-stimulus-plan-223826914.html

    These measures are designed to stimulate the economy. But they're also designed to put Congressional Republicans on the spot. Are they interested in moving the economy forward by passing measures that they and their business allies have favored and advocated? Or are they so intent on making President Obama a failure that they will refuse deficit-neutral goodies they've long favored?

    The answer isn't a no-brainer. According to administration officials, during the debt-ceiling and budget negotiations, Republican leadership conceded that the dominant faction of the House Republican caucus wasn't interested in measures that would make the president look good by improving the economy. And time and again over the last three years, moderate Republicans have walked away from measures they previously supported — on cap-and-trade, an individual mandate for health insurance, immigration reform — simply because President Obama was for them. The White House doesn't have any greater faith in its Republican interlocutors on the Hill than it did on the spring. But it recognizes that the President has to lay out what he's for and then fight for it.
     
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  19. G Zus Kryst

    G Zus Kryst Rookie

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    Where is the kae$h coming from exactly? We gon get $$$$ in the mail like my bro did from Bush?
     
  20. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    What does Irelands tax rate, US companies and their unemployment rates have to do with anything? The issue with US companies parking their money in Ireland has to do with loss of taxable income, not unemployment. These US companies do very little hiring on their offshore havens.

    What the US lacks is manufacturing jobs that export. Much of our economy is based on consumption. We will continue to have these large frequent fluctuations until we get back to manufacturing and exports. This will never happen if we keep the useless unions, strict regulations and a myriad of other things that drive jobs overseas.
     

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