[ALL-NBA DRAFT] Elimination Round: Pool F (Spooner, Sydeffect, Ubigman)

hamilton shot 38% on 3s last season. He is also known as one of the best mid range jump shooters in history. Calderon coming off the bench is also a career 38% 3 point shooter. Either one of these players would always be on the court to space the floor.

 

Playoffs Baby!!!!

 

Spooner,

In the other thread, you asked why I thought my team could beat yours. If you recall, my lineup is:

Eric Maynor/Jameer Nelson
Landry Fields/
Danny Granger/Mike Miller
Kevin Garnett/
Nazr Mohammed/Nene

You have a lineup of:

Derrick Rose/Jordan Crawford
Courtney Lee/
Michael Beasley/Mbah a Moute
Kevin Love/Kenyon Martin
Brook Lopez

First of all, against your team, I'd start Maynor to guard Rose and Mohammed to guard Brook Lopez. My gameplan for Rose would be to give him space on the perimeter and try to take away his penetration lanes. Generally, if Rose is unable to penetrate, he becomes pretty ineffective.

I'd start Mohammed to guard Lopez b/c he's outperformed Lopez in two of the three head to head matchups this past season. In those two games, he played 14 and 28 minutes while Lopez played 40 and 39. In the game that Lopez played better, Mohammed played 8 minutes while Lopez played 41.

Kevin Love may be a great rebounder in general, but he hasn't been in the 2 games (one in 08, one in 09; 8 rpg total) he's played against Kevin Garnett. I know its a small sample size and old games, but it's all we have. And Garnett's defensive numbers in 10-11 rival his numbers in 08-09.

And because of my team's size (Fields 6'7; Granger 6'8; Miller 6'8; Mohammed 6'10; Nene 6'11; Garnett 7'), I actually think my team would have the overall rebounding advantage. The only disadvantage is that if your team did get the rebound, there'd only be Maynor/Nelson playing transition defense. But that's if your team gets the rebound.

Defensively, what would you do about Granger? Beasley is a poor defender. You could put in Moute, but that would leave you with only 1 perimeter shooter (Lee), and your offense would suffer.

And if I bring Nelson in off the bench, how would you stop a Nelson/Nene pick and roll?

My 4th quarter lineup would be Jameer, Fields, Granger, Garnett, and Nene. All of them are capable offensive players, and you have holes in your defense (most notably Beasley and Lopez).

 

How do you intend to cut off penetration? Maynor cannot stay with Rose. You would have to do that with team defense. I have a starting lineup of shooters and very good offensive players. If I isolated rose on Maynor, who would cut off penetration. Garnett? What if Love lined up at the 3 point line? Garnett would then be ineffective in helping with Rose. What if I went small? Having Beasley at the 4 and Love at the 5? How then would you stop penetration? Maybe you could cut off penetration on Rose with a less offensively talented squad. I don't see it playing in your favor here.

If I brought in Mbah a Moute to guard Granger, I would lose a bit of offense, but to say lee is my only shooter is an understatement. Kevin Love shot 417% from 3 this year. With a 470% field goal percentage overall. Brook Lopez has a 492% field goal percentage. He has a very solid midrage game. Your bigs really can't afford to sag off their man to help with Rose. IMO. I drafted Mbah a Moute as a stopper, with this in mind. He is also a solid rebounder at the 3.

I think you may be undervaluing Kenyon Martin's defensive abilities. Yes he is older, but he is still one of the best defensive 4's in the game. Also Mbah a Moute was nominated for the all defensive team again this year, at the 4 spot. Nene has a size advantage, but Mbah a Moute has a 7'0.5" wing span. Between those two, I don't think a Nene/Nelson pick and roll is a huge problem. You should be more worried about stopping Rose. Keep in mind Lopez had mono this year. Hence the weight loss, rebounding drop off, less physicality. He should be able to put that weight back on this summer. By no means is he good at pick and roll D, but he is a 7 footer who averaged 1.5 blocks a game. Things could be worse at the center position.

Additionally, your team would get destroyed in transition. Kevin Love may be the best outlet passing big in the game. Rose, Lee, Beasley/Mbah a Moute is pretty scary from a purely athletic standpoint.

I understand Garnett's numbers are similar to those in 08 and 09, but take into account what Love's numbers where then and what they are now. Big difference.

And to say Nazr Mohammed>Brook Lopez at this point in time is farcical.

 

BTW Wekko, I have a ton of respect for your team. Especially with the disadvantage you were given.

 

Maynor can cut off penetration by giving Rose open space. Remember how Kobe guarded Rondo? He stayed several feet back so Rondo wouldn't be able to penetrate. He simply dared Rondo to shoot.

Ok, bring Love out to the 3pt line. I'll have Garnett contest so it'll be Mohammed/Granger/Fields fighting for rebounds against Lee/Beasley/Lopez. I'd win that rebounding battle.

Of course they can. If your big men are ~14 feet away from the basket, it'd be very easy for my bigs to provide help defense on Rose if he can penetrate. I realize that your bigs would simply need to cut to the basket, but I don't think Rose is capable of making those passes since his court vision isn't that good.

I think that's a stretch.

First of all, Nene is a center that I'd use as a PF if necessary. Mbah a Moute hasn't guarded many PF's like Nene. Secondly, Nene's wingspan is 7'4.5". Thirdly, Mbah a Moute is 6'8/230 lbs. Nene is 6'11/260 lbs. And Nene is very mobile and powerful. He'd score at will against Mbah a Moute.

A Nelson/Nene pick and roll would be a huge problem for your team to defend.

Give him space and make him shoot.

Except my offense is predicated on pick and rolls....

Brook Lopez's mono kept him out of the World Championships. He was fine by the time the regular season started.

Yeah, if your team can get the rebound, but remember, my team is bigger and stronger.

Not really. My only concern about Kevin Love is his rebounding. His total rebounding % in 09-10 was 21.5. It was 23.6 in 2010-2011. If Garnett neutralized him in 09-10 (when he was recovering from a knee surgery), I'm sure a fully healthy Garnett could neutralize him in 10-11.

Look at their head to head matchups. Even I was surprised at how well Nazr played.

 

Are you seriously going to compare Rose's shooting ability to Rondo's? Are you also comparing Kobe Bryant's defense to Eric Maynor? That is an absolutely horrible analogy. WOW.

Yes if Garnett contested Love at the 3 point line, your rebounding would be better than mine, if/when my players miss. I will give you that. Are you seriously telling me that being able to get defensive rebounds will make the difference? Is that the best you have? You still haven't addressed the defensive problem that would create. Rose, Lee, Beasley, Lopez> Maynor, Fields, Granger, Mohammed. That offense would overpower you. I don't see them not converting points at a high rate. Yes I think Derrick Rose has good enough court vision to hit a cutting big man. Are you serious? This is the MVP of the League. If you brought Nene off the bench, your lineup would be,
Maynor, Fields, Granger, Garnett, Mohammed. Who can create their own shot? Granger? You are worried about my offense?

"Mbah a Moute remains the league's most underrated defender, not to mention its most versatile. Against Dallas last season, he guarded Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry in the same game; neither player did jack against him." that is from Hollinger. If you want to talk about physical advantage, Luc Mbah A Moute held Blake Griffin to 7 of 19 shooting this year. He absolutely faces players of Nene's caliber. I still believe Martin is a more than capable defender at the 4. Hollinger claims he is still one of the best.

My starting bigs are actually bigger than yours. Not the other way around. That is pretty clear is it not?

Basically you are telling me you would win on a defensive rebounding advantage?? You dont think there would be transition baskets because you would get a ton of offensive boards? You don' think a team with Kevin Love has a chance to rebound? Good luck selling that one.

 

PWND!

 

Anyone else get the vibe that this is a tough group

 

Your pick!

 

Rose's is bad. Rondo's is worse. That doesn't change the fact that Rose's is still bad and I'd guard them the same way.

Kobe has regressed a lot defensively. You should take a look at Lakersground. The majority of them don't think he deserved an all-defensive team selection. And I do think Maynor's lateral quickness is better.

The offense can't overpower me if the ball stays in Rose's hand. He was MVP b/c he was the best player on the best team. Not b/c of his point guard skills. The way Rose plays point guard is the same way Steve Francis played point guard, and he was exposed in the playoffs. Miami just backed off of him and let him shoot. And that's what I would do.

Granger can create his own shot. So can Garnett. And I could run pick and rolls with Maynor (38% 3pt shooter) and Garnett. But keep in mind that Nelson will still play the lion's share of the PG minutes.

Ok...Terry and Dirk are finesse players who avoid contact. Nene is mobile, powerful, and attacks the rim. Dirk and Nene's playing styles are opposite of one another.

No, he doesn't. Blake Griffin is 6'10/250 lbs and had a TS% of 55%. Nene is 6'11/260 and had a TS% of 66%. Its specious to think that just b/c Mbah a Moute had 1 good game against Blake Griffin, he could handle someone bigger, stronger, and far more efficient.

Yeah, but Nene isn't considered a 4. He's bigger, stronger, and just as fast.

Kevin Love (6'10) and Brook Lopez (7'0) seem about the same as Nazr (6'10) and Garnett (7'0). They may have more size, but I think I'd win the rebounding battle simply b/c Brook Lopez is a poor rebounder. He grabbed 10% of the total available rebounds. To put that into perspective, Landry Fields grabbed 11.7% of the total available rebounds.

I've already shown you that in the few games Kevin Love has played Garnett, Kevin Love hasn't rebounded that well (relative to his usual numbers). And yes, I think my team would get a lot of offensive boards. But I'm hoping there won't be too many.

Here are the eFG% for my team: Nelson (52%), Maynor (46%), Fields (57%), Granger (49%), Miller (played with an injured thumb this past season, but if healthy, his TS% should be around 57%), Garnett (53%), Mohammed (52%), and Nene (62%).

Your team has: Rose (49%), Crawford (42%), Lee (50%), Beasley (47%), Moute (46%) Love (51%), Martin (51%), Lopez (49%).

 

Hey syde. It's your pick in the other draft.

 

Oh, but its ok to compare Garnett to Kevin Love as a rookie? LMFAO! You are ok with saying Garnett had one good game against Kevin Love in 08 as a rookie?
On the subject of efficiency, Love boasted a 24.67 this season.

Blake Griffin 6'10/250 and Nene 6'11/260 are pretty much the same size....
Blake Griffin 22.5ppg
Nene 14.5ppg

In the finals against Miami, Rose scored 28, 21, 20, 23 and 25 points. That means he averaged 23.4 points in the series. His average for the season was 25 ppg. Not much of a difference there. No matter what people say, Kobe was selected all defensive team. Maynor has done nothing. He is a backup point guard.... So you have a backup point guard going up against Derrick Rose. Who wins that matchup? To treat Rose like Rondo really makes you look bad.

Rose: 40% mid-range in the reg-season.45% mid-range in the playoffs.
Kevin Durant: 42% mid-range during the season 42% in the playoffs.

I think Rose can shoot.

 

Like I said, I know its not much, but the two games (one in 08-09, one in 09-10) are the only sample size we have. And Garnett held him well below his rebounding average both times.

No, he can't.

28 pts. 10-22 FGA
21 pts. 7-23 FGA
20 pts. 8-19 FGA
23 pts. 8-27 FGA
25 pgs. 9-29 FGA

 

Don't really understand why I have to argue the value of Derrick Rose. But this has been pretty amusing for me.

This is from 2010. His second year in the league. I don't need to remind you of his shooting progress this year.

From 10 feet and in (basically, floater range): Derrick Rose shoots the most attempts of any PG, makes the most, and has the best FG%. Outside of Mike Bibby, but that guy's taken 20 of those shots the entire year. He's the best at his position at this. 1st in this area.

From 10-15 feet: Tied with Chris Paul for most makes per game in this area, with Chris Paul shooting a slightly superior 51.5% to Rose's 49.7%. Steve Nash shoots a 55% from this area. So Rose is probably 3rd best in this area.

From 16-23 feet: Derrick Rose leads all PGs in attempts and makes per game (by far), tied for 5th in FG% at 44.0%. Takes 7 a game, makes 3, the only person with similar volume is Paul with 5 attempts at 45.0% FG%. Nash outpaces all other PGs shooting this shot at 46% accuracy. #5 in this area- all the players he's tied with are not nearly as high volume as he is.

He's not just become a "solid" midrange shooter. Or a "good" midrange shooter. He's inarguably top 3 at the position, and arguably the best considering shot volume. He's an ELITE midrange shooter, at only his 2nd year in the league.

http://www.hoopdata.com/shotstats.aspx? ... 40&mins=25

 

HAHAHA this is so funny

your argument against my team is as follows

First, to attack Derrick Rose, the MVP of the League. Rose can't shoot or pass, so what can he do? Why didn't Russel Westbrook win MVP?

Second you claim you would out rebound me. I have Kevin Love, the leagues leader in rebounds. I don't care what Garnett did 3 years ago against him.

Christ, you act as if you have a Stockton/Malone Pick and Roll that no one can stop.

I'm too civil to say what is on everyone's mind about you, but I digress, you have heard it from many posters already.

 

First, Rose's flaws are well documented. There's really no point in denying them. Second, Westbrook has a teammate named Kevin Durant.

You also have Brook Lopez, one of the worst rebounding starting centers in the league. It balances out.

I have a pick and roll thats hard to stop, and I can use both Nene and Garnett to set the screens. Most teams don't have 2 big men capable of guarding both of them.

 

You asked me why I thought my team could beat yours, and I told you why. If you have a rebuttal, then present it. There's no need to get personally insulted.

And at least my reasonings are based on relevant information. You honestly think that since Moute was able to guard Blake Griffin well in 1 game, he'd be able to guard Nene well? Nene is an inch taller, 10 lbs heavier, and has a wingspan 5 inches longer than Griffin.

Then you turn into Arjun and act like PPG is the determining factor in whether or not a player is a good scorer.

Truth be told though, you do have a very good team. One of the best.

 

Nene averages 7.6 rpg
Mohammed has 9.7 rebounds per 36......
Garnett averages 8.9 rpg

Your team isn't very good on the boards.

Kevin Love averages 15.2 rpg
Brook Lopez averaged 6 rpg (again he lost a lot of weight this year, he also played in the high post a considerable amount more due to Avery's coaching. If you would look, he averaged 8.6 rebounds the year before.)

Thats a total of 21.2 rpg between the two of them

Nene and Garnett would combine for 16.5 rebounds per game. I assume they would eat up most of your minutes in the frontcourt.
That is one rebound higher than Love on his own.

It doesn't even out. Not even close.

 

My point about ppg wasn't to bring up solely Derrick's ppg. I was trying to say that the way Miami played him, didn't really bring down his scoring average. He was still effective.
You are right there is no need for insults. Just got frustrated.
I seriously hope I can make a better argument than Arjun...