Do you understand the times the bible was written in? Do you understand the prevalence of slavery and the condition of women's rights at the time? Do you understand that followers of Jesus used women to help establish the church? They were some of the founding "fathers". It isn't God that's changed his mind with the times, but rather man's understanding of God that has changed his mind with the times. Again you have a more fundamentalist interpretation of the bible than any of the followers of the bible who are responding in this thread. You seem intent on missing the message and focusing on whatever details you mistakenly think will give you the Gotcha pieces you are looking for. I'm not asking you to believe in the bible the way do or believe in it at all. I'm not asking to you to follow Jesus, or anything of the kind. But you may want to realize there are other interpretations of the bible based on knowledge, context, and study, that are different than the one you've chosen to take.
So, regardless of your beliefs, if I go to Jenny's family and pray with them, for God to comfort them and it makes them feel comforted, that doesn't change the situation?
The loving intent is there, which is good - and that does make a difference - but the prayer is unnecessary. It would be equally good if you went to visit Jenny's family, gave them hugs, told them you cared about them, and so forth...
I don't think there are ghosts. But I'm not going to say that I know with a certainty that they don't exist. It's obvious that we cannot perceive everything, everywhere. I would, however, say that it is rather arrogant to claim certainty over such undefinable things. A 'ghosty' thing in the house could be anything - including a hallucination - I find it strange that we try to personify such things. But who knows... An interesting book on ghosts, demons, and so forth is "The Demon-Haunted World" by Carl Sagan.
20 pages on this topic? Well, it is the summer doldrums. Honestly, who cares? While I'm agnostic, myself, when a family member is gravely ill, and a friend or relative says they are prayng for that family member, do you know what I feel? Grateful. Do you know what I tell them? "Thank you. Your thoughts mean a lot to me." I went through a lot of this recently, and I was grateful for the countless times people offered their prayers for that close family member and for the family. It means they care and I appreciated that, a lot.
No doubt. And that's what I'm trying to get across. The idea that somebody cares is a great thing - and since they believe in prayer it's nice that they offer it. But at the core, there is no demonstratable power in prayer. It's the same as showing support in any number of ways. But still, like you say, it's nice to know people are thinking of you and trying to contribute to your happiness. The intent is good.
I agree with the basis of what you're saying, but I also think that in many cases "You'll be in my prayers" is little more than an involuntary, fleeting verbal response. I can certainly recognize the goodness of the intent when prayers are offered, but personally I'd rather someone express an original condolence - something more indicative of genuine sympathy.
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Yet, you are unable to be as open-minded for belief in gods, religion and prayer? Interesting. It seems we had a thread a while back that had similar parallels with folks claiming religion is bunk but believing in ghosts and UFOs.
Probably the same thing, God is just an alien being that seeded the earth and is up there ****ing around with his own personal petri dish, where you, me, and everyone else is just the little bacteria milling about. DD
Based on knowledge, context and study, the bible is morally obnoxious. Take Abraham, for instance. Should we take that sacrifice as allegory? Allegory for what? A moral lesson? What kind of morals lessons could one derive? Essentially, we pick and choose from the nice bits of the bible. Many people, even to this day, take the entirety of their scripture as literal fact, and they have a great deal of political power over the rest of us, especially in the United States and the Islamic world. Well aware...
an allegory for being a slap in the face to other religions of the day that argued for and demanded human sacrifice...many believe this story is there specifically to communicate to the Jews that human sacrifice to God is never appropriate. given the historical context, that's huge. i don't pick and choose anything. i say all the time that there's all kinds of crap in the bible that makes me uncomfortable and i wish weren't there. the bible is not my god, fortunately.
Although scientifically it would be easier to prove the existence of UFO's (the alien kind) than it would to scientifically prove the existence of God.
What FB and MadMax are saying is that the whole Bible needs to be understood in context of when it was written. Its not a matter of picking and choosing bits but understanding why something was written. As noted the discussion of women and slaves is something that needs to be understood based on when those statements where written. Fair enough. I don't know what would happen if the Roman Catholic church were to do something like that, perhaps there would be riots and probably schisms but that is a matter for them to work out. Well for one I am not a Christian so I am not espousing Christian dogma or not. Not being a Christian its not my place to say who is interpreting the Bible correctly and who isn't. As FB and MadMax are Christians I have an intellectual and friendly curiosity about Christianity but I am not going to tell them that they are going against traditional Christian dogma when I don't believe in it to begin with. I guess its fine to ask questions and I apologize if I have been misreading your intention. That said the tone of much of this discussion strikes me as smug and arrogant by trying to trap Christians with things from the Bible and then accusing them of not following their religion faithfully for not taking those things at literal face value. Its not up to me to decide who isn't a Christian. Regarding belief in Jesus' divinity quibbling over passages in the Old Testament doesn't seem to me to make much of a difference regarding whether Jesus was divine or not. My understanding is that the act of faith is what matters and not a slavish devotion to the literalness of every single line in the Bible.
What do you mean? Read the section you quoted from me one more time: Now let me translate it to you to demonstrate how I am equally open-minded for my belief in god, religion, and prayer? I don't think there is a god. I don't think there is power in prayer. But I'm not going to say that I know with a certainty that there is not a god out there somewhere. It's obvious that we cannot perceive everything, everywhere. I would, however, say that it is rather arrogant to claim certainty in saying you know who God is. I would also say it is arrogant to claim that your prayers have powers, since it is not demonstratable. An 'answer to prayer' could be anything - including coincidence or confirmation bias - I find it strange that we try to act like there's a personal god (and think that 'ours' is right while others are wrong). But who knows...
You have softened your tone in the last few pages, but I sugggest you review your early posts in this thread. Specifically post #281.
You do realize that post 281 was a copy/pasted article, not my own words... right? I even noted that it was perhaps offensive. If not, I'm going to go back right now to make it all italics. I should have made that more clear. Edit: Nevermind... I guess you can't edit older posts?
