Do you want Mcgrady back on the team for the vet min?

He's not garbage, it's just proof that they could move on without him.
He was a very important part of the Rockets for his tenure, as history proved, the Rockets could not advance with him.

McGrady wanted to leave.

this is from an article by CLUTCH (a pretty credible guy here)

The Rockets have moved on, but it appears alot of fans have not.
McGrady has always been a controversial figure wherever he went. It's refreshing to have Kevin Martin and Kyle Lowry, players who don't have their own legion of fans, just Rockets fans.

 

If your read my last post you would see that I'm done arguing the point with Cuddle for the fact there is no persuading him, he's also stubborn and stuck in his ways. He is on some sort of high horse and refuse to except the fact that that's he's talking in circles. Trying to compare Tracy and Moses??? Lol. What a joke. Comparing apples and oranges and stating their the same because there both round. Problem is that they're two different fruits, but what ever.

Why don't you ask Cuddle they same? Is he open minded? Is he willing to change his stance? I think not. He will defend it to the end. The exact reason I said I was done with this thread. But here you are dragging me into it. Thanks!! I'm happy to oblige.

The question are you willing to be open minded and take a hard open look at the facts?

If so, congratulations. What is your thoughts on the Tracy situation? Would you welcome him back?

 

15 pages of .. what?

McGrady was the best Rockets player of the decade - no doubt
McGrady was the most controversial Rockets player - no doubt
McGrady was one of the most talented players in Rockets history - no doubt
McGrady left Houston not because he wanted it but because of his personal issues with Rick and Morey - no doubt
Morey and Les both got rid of Rick and made a stupid decision of hiring McHale but Daryl still has a lot of credit - true
... so McGrady will never ever wear a Rockets jersey until Morey is gone - no doubt

Close this stuff

 

Please don't ask people to read your posts if you don't even take the time to read mine. As I've said again, and again, and again, I'm not comparing Moses to Tracy, simply the situations they were in. You keep saying that I'm talking in circles...care to elaborate? I address all your points, yet every reply I've received lately is the same "you make no sense, your (sic) taking in circles" crap.

I'm open to reconsidering my stance, but you need some more compelling evidence than "lol ur wr0ng." It appears that you still think I want Tracy back, or that I don't accept his failures. I've addressed those issues long ago. I don't want him back, I've accepted his failures. Your inability to read coupled with this insistence on continuing to post is the very reason why I post against your kind.

That's what you were trying to prove? That a team can move on after a player's departure? Well, bravo sir. I doubt that it was your intention, but you've effectively proven my point, which is that teams move on after a player's departure but post-departure success is not an indication of the player's worth--or lack thereof--and is therefore an ineffective means of argument when discussing a player. Could have saved a lot of time but better late than never.

"The Rockets have moved on, but it appears alot of fans have not."

I agree completely. You and your coalition still dog the guy whenever you get the opportunity. Every thread, from his tweets to Yao or his work in Darfur, always devolves into the same garbage because of you idiots and your crusade against the imaginary "TOFs" who "rewrite history." I've moved on from Tracy, but your coalition still acts like a bitter ex-wife scorned, going out of their way to argue points that have been settled long before.

Since you guys hate reading, you missed when I said this three pages ago.

 

If every reply you get, tells you make no sense, then what does that tell you? Is it that hard to believe?

Tracy and Moses situations weren't even close, but you seem to be holding on to it for dear life. The circles are you keep coming back to the same argument of comparing Tracy and Moses and everyone says you make no sense, but you say it again. Do you really think we didn't read your post? or is it your point has no traction.

You leave yourself a backdoor to crawlfish out of by saying, I'm not a TOF, I don't want him back, I'm just the internet police. Maybe your Tracy in disguise or a family member. But you have another motive.

If your here I'll be here, so grab some popcorn.

 

That tells me that you are incapable of basic reading comprehension, and no, it is not hard to believe.

You keep saying that I'm arguing in circles but you continue to go back to points that I've already addressed numerous times, but you fail to acknowledge.

How am I holding onto it for dear life? It wasn't even the crux of my point, it was an example to show you how invalid your method of argument is, and I've since provided other examples. No matter how many times I tell you that I'm not comparing the players directly, you can't seem to understand.

I've left myself a backdoor? Jesus christ, can I make myself more clear? I've said again, and again, that I'm not here to defend McGrady. I have another motive, and that motive is to show idiots like yourself how fallacious your arguments are. I addressed that here, and even that post was a quoting of yet another previous post you failed to understand:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showpost.php?p=6266373&postcount=268

Apparently, it's not working, because as others have noted you're too stubborn to even read the ******* posts you're replying to. Either that, or you simply can't comprehend what you're reading, and in both cases I would advise against replying because you don't even understand anymore.

I might as well be arguing with the brick wall you're bashing your head against. It's ridiculous how many times I have to repost what I've already said because you keep going back to points I've already addressed, completely ignoring what I've said.

 

I never bothered reading the thread because T-Mac is not in the plans for the future. He serves no purpose. Let's say if we are contending, yeah, I'd take my chance if he was going to settle for the vet min.

After reading this garbage of a thread, with out a shadow of a doubt, I want T-Mac on the Rockets and starting just so he can stick it to a poster here.

 

dude you have no point, all you do is pretend to take the high road after you defend mcgrady for all his failures.

your post player choice of Moses Malone was illogical because there is nothing in relation to departure of McGrady.

McGrady's departure did have a major effect on the teams he played for because of how big his role on the team was and how big his contract was.

there isn't a tinman coalition, these other guys don't think like the TOF BORG that hovers the clutchfans universe.

if you want to label me and the other fans , it's the federation of united clutchfans.

 

The Tracy and moses comparison was perfect. It struck a nerve, which was its intention. 2 drastically different players in similar situations. That's all it was meant to show. As for my stance, I don't think we need him. I would rather the ball be in the hands of our 2 talented pgs. + we need defense from the 3 spot, not more passing.

 

You just quoted me outright saying what my point was, and now I have no point? Fine, I'll say it again for you. Teams move on after a player's departure but post-departure success is not an indication of the player's worth--or lack thereof--and is therefore an ineffective means of argument when discussing a player

The Moses comparison was to prove this point, because in both instances of their departure the team found more success afterward. I gave you more examples in Grant Hill, Ben Gordon, and Pau Gasol as well.

You seemed to have accepted my point, but still take issue with the Moses comparison. That's fine, until you use your anger to somehow convince yourself that I never had a point.

United Clutchfans? Give me a break. We're all Rocket fans here but you and your coalition seem intent on dividing the board with your TOF talk. I'm not taking any high road, I despise you and your kind and I make no attempts to hide it. I use logic and reason, you can't stop talking about the 90's and the mythical TOFs. The former I didn't mind, until every thread you started become some sort of passive aggressive jab at a player you supposedly "got over."

Yeah, right.

 

Apparently it is hard to believe because you keep spewing it out at every single reply. No one but you sees any comparison between the Tracy/Moses situations. It's just a way for you to side track the conversation, the facts that have been handed to you over and over. Do you not comprehend? Tracy leaves teams get better, Toronto, Orlando, Houston. Never has a GM said good things about him after he left, never have the fans cheered for him upon his return, never has he been a leader. Do you agree?

But you try and make a comparison with another player from a different era saying the situation is the same to prove a point about Tracy. That other player carried his team to the finals, he left and it took over a decade later for the team wins a championship. Tracy leaves and within a year or a couple of years his former team is winning again.

If your not here to defend Tracy or even want him back, then what in the hell are you doing here? Stirring the pot, throwing poo doing what you say you are here to stop. You say yourself and I quote: "I have another motive, and that motive is to show idiots like yourself how fallacious your arguments are". When if fact your comparison of the imaginary Tracy/Moses situation is fallacious it's self.

You must be very lonely, to not really want Tracy back but are policing a thread about "wanting Tracy back for the minumum". I call that being a bigger problem than your so called Tinman brigade. At least Tinman is present real facts real articles that you fail to comprehend.

 

Lol, U funny! I'd like to see him stick it to a poster, sounds kinda kinky.

But no really, jokes aside. I'll be holding my breath.

 

A perfect comparison of what? It didn't strike a nerve, it's laughable. It's happen to tracy three times on three teams. Let's find some unrelated time in the past to compare.
You are right about one thing they are two drastically different players.


I'm glad to see you believe we have two talented point guards and that Tracy couldn't provide defense from the 3pt line. I do agree. We don"t need more passing. We need someone who can break down the defense.

 

I said your lack of reading comprehension isn't hard to believe, and it isn't. It is becoming more and more obvious which each asinine reply you post.

I don't know why you keep fixating on the Moses comparison when I've already addressed it multiple times. Which each reply, that is the only thing you concentrate on, and that is the source of the circular argument you're so against and the point that I'm supposedly holding on to for dear life. In case you missed it the first 500 times:

So again, tell me how my argument is fallacious. Do you know what that means? Do you even know what a logical fallacy is? Post hoc ergo propter hoc? I'll post the wiki summation:

You have no idea what you're talking about, but it is cute seeing you trying to flip the tables, even if it's horribly misguided.

I also appreciate that attempted personal attack from someone who has over twice as many posts as I have. I sure am lonely.

You seemed to have answered your own question about what I'm doing here, even though I told you long ago. I'm glad you were able to finally piece it together, though. As I've said before, I'm a fan of the art of rhetoric, and I'm a fan of Clutchfans. I have no problems accepting facts, but I do have a very serious problem with charlatans touting their opinions as facts. What I'm trying to say is, I have a problem with idiots like yourself, and I do derive some pleasure from systematically dismantling your arguments.

It's certainly a problem for your coalition.

 

This shows a lack of NBA knowledge, pulling Moses Malone in a comparison to Tracy McGrady for any given situation.

Moses Malone:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonmo01.html
Awards
1978-79 NBA MVP
1981-82 NBA MVP
1982-83 NBA Finals MVP
1982-83 NBA MVP

Tracy McGrady
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mcgratr01.html
Awards
2000-01 NBA Most Improved Player

Moses Malone left the Rockets. Tracy McGrady left the Rockets.
So freaking what?

It's not who left, it's what legacy they left behind.



Tracy left the Rockets hanging.
Moses's number is hanging forever.

 

Once again, congratulations on missing the point entirely. Nobody ever said Tracy is better than Moses. In fact, I started the comparison by saying that Tracy isn't even in the same league as Moses. That's not the point. It was never up for debate. I don't know why you guys are still talking about it, but I guess that's what you do best. Phantom arguments with people who don't exist on irrelevant topics that were never in question.

In case you missed it:

The very fact that every one of your coalition's responses are able to be addressed with a quote from a previous reply really shows that they live up to their alternate name of the "circular argument brigade."

 

I'm fixated on the comparison between Tracy/Moses because you mention it in everyone one of your posts(apparently 500 times). It's seems to be the basis of your so call internet policing of this thread. You bring it up as a fact when it is nothing but more of your so called "art of rhetoric". I can tell you are a fan of it and good at talking BS, out your brown eye.

As far as insults, you have thrown the "idiot" word out on just about everyone of your post as well so don't give me any **** about insults. You've accused me of being some part of a Tinman coalition. You've accused me of many things. If you throw a rock I will too.

If you don't like my opinion then fine but don't spew out garbage, insult me and claim that you are stating facts. Facts is what you seem to try and dodge with your misguided rhetoric.

I don't normally get into pissing battles on this board, I say my peace and move on but you have my attention.

Btw, thank's I haven't posted this much all year. Your good for my post count. I'll keep this up until this thread is locked up.

 

I think people are misunderstanding cuddie, if not plain wrong.

Might not like the choice of comparison. But remove the names and the CONTEXT made PERFECT sense.

Comparing Tracy to Von Wafer IS whats considered in the "same ball park" here. But even THAT IS wrong, because we know Wafer isnt NEARLY as talented and a lead man as McGrady. But here you'll get the high fives when you say Wafer helped the Rockets to the 2nd round and Me-Mac didnt. Because it is better to be fan compliant than to be truly objective.

Though fans and media always go for STORYLINES over context. Winner/Loser, Hero/Choker titles over real facts. (Consider that Dirk Nowitzki had BETTER PLAYOFF numbers in his previous playoff years than last year's title run. But Dirk "became" a "winner". )

But just like how to the victors goes the spoils, to the losers goes the bashing. McGrady had opportunity to make his storyline better but didnt.

 

Would I want him back? Doesn't make sense on this team. At best he'd be a trade deadline replacement for an injured player, like how the Grizzlies got Battier when Rudy Gay went down.

Remember when Steve Francis played with "heart & soul" and put it all out there on the court and we were glad to have him back? But fizzled badly due to lack of focus? Why isnt the Francis story WORSE than McGrady's when he let down the team as much as anyone? Just cuz he was a "low risk/high reward" type?

 

Fans recognize that Francis wasn't a smart ball player.
Plus Francis started his career here, it's like we watch him develop.
Steve came here with potential, Tracy came here with expectations.