So so sad. There is faith to have on top of any set of facts or any truths you hold dear. Ugh, ugh and ugh.
I had forgotten this exchange I had with LL back in January. I can say in D&D and this thread what I wouldn't say in his memorial thread...this is why I am down on religion and love Jesus. I read it in Moe's posts, as well, and it frustrates me. The "faith" LL was responding to wasn't faith, from my view...it's the parroted voices of rules and damnation and tricky loopholes with eternal consequences. I do NOT see that in the God I understand through the lens of Jesus, the Liberating King, who loved those that society deemed unlovely without condition.
Agreed and it seems like it came down to the brick building theory that you discussed from Velvet Elvis. I can't really engage in many of the religious threads because the arguments and statements made aren't talking about what I believe in as a Christian even though some of those in the argument call themselves Christian as well. One side is arguing against beliefs that I don't have and claiming that Christians have those beliefs. The other side is arguing for beliefs that I don't have, and saying that it's Christianity. But the brick building type of Christianity leads to people closing themselves off to anything even dealing with Jesus while it may be completely different than what they thought of as Christianity before. It's all sad and at times frustrating. I know there are others of faith out there that don't have those types of repressive ideas about religion, but they aren't the squeaky wheel (which is probably a good thing) and they don't get the attention.
I hadn't seen that post until now. Seeing that he named me in it is bittersweet, to say the least. All of this **** just goes to show that our words really do matter, even in the D&D. You never know when something you say will make someone stop and reflect deeply in a transformative way. Let's all remember that there are people behind the posts. We have the power to bring ourselves closer to each other, even in an age defined by division. Recently, I have gone through a process similar to the one LL did in confronting his beliefs on spirituality. I'm still an atheist, but I can no longer hold onto the belief that religion is a logical error, or, more accurately, that religious people are somehow less rational than atheists. No doubt LL's example inspired me to open my own mind a bit. So I picked up a collection of Soren Kierkegaard's discourses on Christianity at the Austin Public Library. Where I expected to find irony and veiled critique, I instead discovered the seriousness of Good News, the joy of learning from lilies and birds, the power of love to hide a multitude of sins. Without ever questioning my lack of belief in God, I learned how to live before Her in fear and trembling. I, myself, am not a week away from the end of the longest, most meaningful relationship of my life. Indeed, the only meaningful (romantic) relationship of my life. It's been sad, no doubt, but I've been able to start the process of moving on in part thanks to the power of faith, a concept I found utterly absurd a year ago. Now, I'm not saying that all is good because Jesus or St. Peter or whoever will usher me into paradise when I die; rather, I have faith that God is here to meet me now--that, quoting from a passage Kierkegaard returns to often, "All good gifts and all perfect gifts come from above, from the Father of Lights, in Whom there is no change, no shadow of turning." Thank you, Landlord Landry, for showing us the true meaning of courage in what is too often a den of cowards. Tragedy exists in this world, but that doesn't mean we should reject either tragedy or worldliness. Run towards life, affirm it in its most tragic moments, because love is strongest when life is hardest.
He found his own truth, but I doubt any of us know "the" truth. Wow - I appreciate that he is no longer suffering but he left a lot of people behind that were counting on him. Most notably the 4 kids he had, that is not something a hero would do, IMO. DD
This might be a question better suited for another thread but I am wondering if Landlord Landry's reassessment of his views was it just a reaction to the dogmatism of those Christians around him or was it something greater? As a Christian you are trying to see things through the lens of Jesus and that by definition means that you believe in Jesus. What I am wondering is if someone has doubts about the divinity of Jesus but just accepted Jesus as a human teacher would that still qualify them as a Christian? For people like Landlord Landry who may have been wrestling with the issue of faith how is such a view be considered?
Great post! To me faith is an ongoing process and not an end where you have one fixed view and that is it. Another poster in another thread talked about Christianity as a relationship but I think that applies to other religions too in that the practice of faith is about understanding one's own relationship to something greater than oneself.
Thank you for these words. And please feel free to contact me any time if you need to talk, I mean that. I'm probably the most bitter and jaded person on this forum when it comes to religion, because I still feel like my childhood was stripped away from me and I was brainwashed by zealots. Most of you don't know what I went through and would probably be shocked to hear all the gory details of growing up in a bubble, a literal bubble in which this website was literally my only connection to the outside world. In that sense, this place in a lot of ways made me who I am today, and I am grateful for that. Many times it was interacting with so many different viewpoints and philosophies that helped me form my own conclusions when at first I was just a puppet on a string. I just want all of you (especially Max) to understand that I do not intend to demean your personal faith, I think faith is something that brings people joy and comfort. I lost mine around the time I started to lose my first love, but honestly I realized it was never really there for me. I never truly could accept any of it, even when I had no other alternatives. But the people I hold dearest in my life are believers in God, and it is not their faith in God that frustrates me, it is the religion that keeps them blinded in ignorance that hurts me deeply. I talk mainly about my immediate family, but my extended family have much more progressive viewpoints yet remain Christians. My uncle lent me a copy of "The Reason for God: Belief in the Age of Skepticism" and I read through it. I found some things interesting, but none of it makes as much sense to me as The God Delusion. My anger is that my own mother, who is the most gentle, selfless person I have ever met... would be crushed to know I was an atheist. I just can't tell her. I talk so loudly on this forum about this and that, but I don't have the ****ing balls to admit who I really am to my own mother. I'm a coward. Rhien was not a coward. I'm not condoning what he did, because it would have gotten better for him, he would have healed, and he would have gotten even stronger and been an even better father to his children, but the pain was too much for him. I just wish with everything that he had let us reach out to him that night.
Well spoken Moes. I believe you had said you have a baby on the way, congrats, but once that child is born your entire life will change as will your perspective on life. You have a chance to bring your child up the way you like without prejudice, and with whatever teachings you wish to impart. If you tell your mom or not, honestly, IMO, it doesn't matter, be your own man, you don't need their acceptance or approval any more, you can break the cycle on your own with your wife/significant other. Good luck, fatherhood awaits, and while it is a rollar coaster, it is 100% the best thing life has to offer. DD
Thanks DD. I suppose my biggest flaw is that I hate disappointing people. I am very happy about the child. I've been the jaded stepson for too long, I'm ready to be the open-minded father.
It is an AWESOME experience, when you first hold the baby in your hands and realize they are totally relient on you for everything. It can be scary, but once you find your footing, there is nothing more rewarding in life. DD
1. You do NOT owe me an apology, and I wasn't fishing for one...I promise. If anything, I owe you an apology on behalf of the Church for the crap you've been force-fed. 2. You are not a coward...you love your mom, and you don't want to crush her. It's ok not to have that discussion with her; to champion the relationship over being "right." I'd say that's self-sacrifice, ultimately....or at least something close to it.
I know you weren't, and it is people like you and some members of my family that have always been examples to me that some of the best people I know are Christians.
Really great to read this thread after the fact. Thanks for sharing LScolaDominates, DD, Max, Judoka, etc.... and especially Landlord. His pursuit of truth is downright inspiring. That's what I f**king want. Some pure, unadulterated truth. I hope with all my heart he caught, if only, a glimpse of it. Moes, much of what you said about your childhood and religion, resonated with me. I offer no consolation or counsel, other than to pursue truth, which I tell more to myself and to those reading than to you, as you clearly have made a religion of it, as many here have. LL, died a hero in my book, too.
Totally agree with Max and I think it's very important to approach the issue in such a way. Some time ago I was conversing via email with a person facing similar circumstances and I think what I said then is still true:
