31 Americans, 7 Afghans killed in helicopter crash

No one ever has.

 

I'd wager that I think I know a fair amount of the Soviet-Afghan war. And like I said, it's different. The Soviet objective in the Afghanistan war was to prop up Kamal out of irrational concerns of American influence seeping into a country that bordered their relatively unstable Central Asian republics.

In a tribal primitive place like Afghanistan, setting up a central government is impossible. That's what can't be done in Afghanistan, whether by the Soviet Union or us. But my argument is that it never should have been our objective. We tried to make it our objective - hence almost ten years of misery and war, and tragedies like these.

Iraq has nothing to do with this. It was a pointless and stupid war fought out of a combination of a personal vendetta, wishful thinking, and the ultimate application of the idiocy of Wilsonianism. Especially with the government becoming relatively more stabilized, there is no reason to keep anything beyond a token force. And out of all the refugee groups I work with these days, I find the Iraqis to be the most pleasant to deal with, especially compared to Somalians or Karens.

And I hate Pearl Harbor/WTC comparisons, especially for reasons relating to my own heritage. But a lot more Americans died from the Pacific War than from that attack.


Either way, I know I have a fairly unusual view of international relations (I am without a doubt a firm believer in realism and am not very interested in morals on an international stage), and we're discussing counterfactuals at this point anyways. From a practical standpoint dealing with the present day, it's probably best to withdraw, and let them just kill each other. As long as the Afghans don't threaten us, it doesn't matter whether the guy in charge is a dictator or not.

 

Damn. So sad. RIP

 

i'm not really advocating flattening Kabul, at least not now. perhaps it was an option when the Taliban were still running things in 2001.

however, and assuming we pull-out, given the support for the taliban that comes from pakistan, rendering those mountain passes inhabitable for a generation or two, doesn't seem like such a bad idea.

 

i'm sure you are joking and basso annoys me to no end, but come on man. totes inappropes at any time, but especially after hearing the news about landlord landry.

 

Nuke in Afghanistan/Pakistan vs. Bullet in basso's head. I know which I would pick. Not that it's a real choice, until basso's kind actually gets put in charge of things, that is.

 

Well that ****ing sucks.

can we GTFO out already?

 

None of that counters my point that Kabul was pretty much destroyed in the aftermath of the Soviet war or that the Soviet tried to break the Afghan will to fight. The Soviets were far more brutal than we are and prior to us getting into Afghanistan much of it had already been devastated by 20+ years of warfare. Ratcheting up the brutality on them on has been tried already and didn't work.

 

What the hell is wrong with you that you let somebody on an internet message board bug you that much?

Lighten up Francis.....SHEESH !

DD

 

One of my best friends was killed June 25th in Kunar Province, Afghanistan. It is very difficult for me to talk about. I share his memory here, not to make any political point, but to put a face to names like Dimitri Del Castillo. He was a West Point grad, one hell of an athlete, a newlywed, and a 24 year old wunderkind who had more to offer the world than I ever could have. We are losing far too many Dimitri's, every day, to even come close to justifying these wars.

1L Dimitri Andres Del Castillo


http://www.dvidshub.net/news/72966/love-life-and-price-independence

Nothing really matters to me politically anymore, other than preventing the systemized, calculated murder of young American men and women in these Boer Wars.

 

Classless beyond belief, even for you.

 

Three words to think about basso... Islamic Militant recruitment.

LOLLOLOLOLOLOL I forgot you don't think

You nuke a part of a Islamic nation and even the moderates will pick up arms.

 

Very sorry to hear about that and my thanks to your friend for his service and my sympathy to his family.

It is a shame that so few of us are really directly connected to those who put on the uniform and fight for our country. I often think that if more of us were more directly connected to the military politicians would be less likely to deploy the troops.

 

my thoughts exactly.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/08/09/chinook.son.ireport/index.html

 

This brought tears to my eyes.

 

Holy crap JayZ,

That hits hard.

I am all for pulling out of that crap hole and letting them fend for themselves.

DD

 

yep, and questions as well. why was such a green pilot on a mission like this? why were there so many seals in one helo? and why weren't they flying in their own helo's, which are armored, and available, and have SpecOps pilots, rather than a national guard helo, which is not?

 

What about the most important question - can we please get the hell out of dodge?

Freaking 10 years of this **** - families and kids devastated, economies ruined, and our position as a global, protected power not seemingly any better today than it was when it started.

The kid's dad could have just as easily died from a random car accident (heck, maybe more likely)... but at least then it could be chalked up to random destiny, and not some useless "war" fueled primarily by good ole greed, run apparently by incompetent idiots (see your questions) and seemingly with no end in sight.

 

Keep in mind we let them fend for themselves after the Soviets pulled out and we know what happened.

I think we need to greatly rethink our Afghan strategy but I don't think just pulling out and letting them fend for themselves is the answer.

 

That's fine as long as it is contained within their own borders, if not, we take em down from the air next time...

DD