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Statistical Comparisions for Kyle Lowry

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Carl Herrera, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    It's not going to always work. The world is not a perfect place and sometimes life is just flat out unfair. Teams run and practice defensive drills all the time so they can respond faster to rotations and switch offs and minimize situations where Yao can be caught out of position. This is another reason why PG's that are at least decent defenders are pretty important. They can help slow down and decrease penetration from the get go.
     
  2. JonesDaddy

    JonesDaddy Member

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    They wouldn't actually be switching men, but Bosh's lateral quickness and length > Scola's. If the C is involved in the PnR, then the PF rotates/helps cover the basket.
     
  3. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    So what is so special about that quote you posted by Morey and what does it have to do with me following the Rockets? Aaron had a good year, it was natural for Morey to give praise, especially when reporters ask you about it. You are so naive, it is sad.
     
  4. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    You said Morey said that b/c he wanted to increase the value of AB, which is false. So if you follow the Rockets just a little bit, you would know how the timeline went.

    Morey praised AB before there were any rumblings of trade rumors, or any problems b/t the front office and AB. Morey liked the guy, wanted (along with Adelman) him to start badly a year ago since they drafted him, and AB just won MIP his first year starting.

    It's sad that you don't even know the point of the primary discussion of this thread--people are claiming AB had a "mediocre" year, that his MIP season was "hollow"--hence the comparisons to Lowry, who people are saying had a better year than brooks did that year. But at least you agree with me that AB had a good year.

    Just to remind people out there who AB beat for the MIP: Kevin Durant, George Hill, and Marc Gasol.

    EDIT: here's what the politician Battier about AB at the end of the year:

    "He has a tremendous year... He has SINGLE-HANDEDLY at times WILLED HIS TEAM TO VICTORIES. We WOULDN'T HAVE A WINNING RECORD WITHOUT HIM... It's a big step for him. The NUMBERS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES...He CARRIED this team and that warrants the award."

    http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/6969227.html
     
    #104 t_mac1, Aug 3, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  5. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    What the hell do you expect them to say? Jesus, you're dumb.

    Right, because boosting someone's trade value should only happen at a certain period.

    And yes, he had a good year. But the point is, people should stop overrating him because of that year. It will probably be the best he is ever gonna have, because Aaron's skillset and potential simply ends there. The guys saying that his good year was hollow are correct, we have seen the best of him. Quit being so naive and believing everything you read. Morey said good things about Trevor too. He was traded. He said good things about Aaron, guess what he was traded. And Battier says good things about everybody. Let's go, what is your next ignorant excuse?

    God, it is hard to post using my phone.
     
  6. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    “It is a no-brainer, of course,” Morey said. “Aaron is an emerging point guard who has a bright future.
    “He showed great poise and production when he became the starter last year.
    “We of course expect him to be a Rocket for a long time.”


    Morey said this in 2009, so I guess he anticipated trading AB 2 years in advance. WTH.

    The things Morey said about Brooks that were favorable were right after he won the MIP. He had a good year, and the Rockets were happy for him.

    However, nothing favorable was said about Brooks a few months prior to the trade deadline or after Brooks was injured to pump up his "trade value", in fact the team was fairly tight-lipped/vague about the whole situation. Hell, they couldn't say anything b/c Brooks sucked and was bratty.

    Sure GMs can say favorable things to pump up the trade value of a player, but in this case, NO. Around August of 2010, Morey imposed his "team-wide" policy of not extending players until they hit free-agency (last player to be extended before his contract officially ran out was TMAC--they didn't give one to Yao this past summer--we know why, never gave one to Hakeem/Clyde; Lowry was a restricted free agent). From then till the season started, Morey didn't say anything in regards to Brooks publicly. And we all know what happened when the season did start.

    And stop contradicting yourself. The other guys said he had a MEDIOCRE year. Mediocre does not equal good. So if you agree with them, you also think Brooks was mediocre that year? They're saying his stats were hollow b/c it really didn't illustrate the actual impact that he had on the game, which was not as much as Lowry in 09-10.

    2) Morey said good things about Trevor BEFORE the season started (Morey and Adelman actually BELIEVED it--one of Morey's regrets). He then shown regret as the season went along when talking about Trevor Ariza, along with Adelman. You obviously could have seen this by seeing how Trevor's role regressed as the season progressed that year. Again, you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

    3) Tell me when Battier says a guy "wills his team to victory," and that guy isn't a top 2 player on a team. No mediocre player "wills his team to victory." Battier is usually often very complimentary, but not over the top like that. The last time Battier said someone "wills" the Rockets to victories, it was TMAC or Yao. So another fail.

    Brooks had a tremendous year in 09-10, he should deserve props for that. His teammates acknowledged it. The team acknowledged it. The national media awarded him for that. He just couldn't keep it up the next year, whined about it, and thus got traded. Simple story.
     
    #106 t_mac1, Aug 3, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  7. bongo33

    bongo33 Member

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    This is getting intense

    [​IMG]
     
  8. meh

    meh Member

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    I just want to note that Morey gives all his players glowing reviews. He even talked about how Budinger and Hill could become all-stars one time. Seriously, he's the GM. What do you expect him to say? That Brooks just had an average season and we should not expect much of him because his peripherals were mediocre?

    All you need to know about what Morey thinks of Brooks is that

    A. Morey had a chance to lock him before FA and decided not to.
    B. Morey traded him rather than waiting and matching an offer ala Lowry
     
  9. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Budinger and HIll didn't have productive years that was hyped up by the national media. Morey said those things of what could happen to those guys in the future (potential you can say). Morey didn't praise Brooks on his potential, but what he did in 09-10. I mean, do you hear Morey ever say Yao will be back, and dominate last year? Or Budinger still has a chance to be an all-star? He's fairly realistic when in terms of players. GM/coaches raving about "potential" of players (signing Ariza) are different from raving about a player's actual performance (during the season Ariza).

    A) As I stated, the Rockets have a team-wide policy of not extending contracts until that player reaches free agency (the only exception is primarily extending the rookie contract). The last player to get locked up prior to FA was McGrady (who had another year left before signing a 3 year extension in 05), and obviously so b/c he was a superstar. Morey did not even lock Yao up, for obvious reasons. This is/and forever will be a great tactic b/c it forces that player to continue to produce under pressure. If Lowry had the same season as Brooks did and didn't hit FA until this summer, the same scenario would happen b/t Morey and Lowry.

    B) Lowry was a restricted FA. If he didn't match, Lowry would bounce b/c he wanted to start; Morey simply matched another offer for Lowry. You can't risk a good backup like Lowry after 09-10. AB had another year under his contract. Morey didn't have to do anything until the end of the year.

    Here's what Morey said on the situation:

    "Every player gets his time to get his money," Morey said. "The money a player makes really doesn't always - I'd say more than half the time - correlate to anything bottom-line based. It correlates to when they became a free agent. It correlates to who else is a free agent when they became one. What was the market at that time?"

    Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bk/bkn/7222730.html#ixzz1Ty7uy15

    Morey was not going to offer a price to Brooks without knowing his market price (since he wasn't a FA yet), risking overpaying. A lot of GMs overpay players without knowing the market price.

    And Brooks acted like a typical self-serving athlete who thinks he should get paid after one good season.
     
    #109 t_mac1, Aug 3, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2011
  10. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    Exactly. It's really that simple. Yet this fool can't grasp that. If Morey believed in Aaron so much, he wouldn't have traded him. Period. This idiot keeps bringing up pointless quotes from Morey, when the facts are right there in front of your face.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Since we're following the idiotic trope that whatever Morey says publicly about players is gospel and must be accepted as 100% truth, despite his vested interest and past history of *not doing so* - let's notice how far his opinon of Brooks slipped as the door hit him on the way out:

    Ouch, emrerging player with bright future to just "starter-quality" in less than a year. That's not exactly a step up.
     
  12. redhotrox

    redhotrox Member

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    You’re not going to have much luck reasoning with someone who thinks defense (a.k.a. half the game) is just a “little thing” when factoring in the role they played for the team.
     
  13. oakdogg

    oakdogg Member

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    You debate like a little kid.
     
  14. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    Thanks. I have low toleration for stupidity. Tmac1 is the dumbest person on this board.
     
  15. oakdogg

    oakdogg Member

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    If you're so much smarter than Tmac1, how come you've never heard of the word, "tolerance."
     
  16. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Don't mind him. He likes to follow me around on this board. Let him be.
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Don't worry T_mac1, as far as this goes, I think you are making a very good case.

    Unfortunately you are arguing with folks that look at things differently than you do, and there is no changing anyone's mind.

    DD
     
  18. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Look I don't mind people who have different opinions, b/c there has never been a consensus when it comes to comparing players.

    I don't have a problem with people who claim Lowry is the better player, b/c he is in several ways.

    My problem, and my argument, has not been to say Brooks or Lowry is the better player. I don't really care actually as long as they play well when they do play (and both have). I appreciated both of their respective seasons.

    What I have tried to do is simply bring up what Brooks did bring to the team, and what he did in 09-10 wasn't "mediocre" or "hollow." He had a HUGE impact on this team in 09-10, and won us some games down the stretch by himself.

    He was a good player being put in a superstar player role, and he did pretty decent considering who else was on the team (young bench, Ariza being dubbed "the man."

    For some on here to simple scoff at his contributions is simply ignorant. I mean, it's pathetic for one poster on here to completely disregard his MIP award.
     
    #118 t_mac1, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011
  19. chenjy9

    chenjy9 Numbers Don't Lie
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    What AB did was what you can expect out of any decent scorer on a team with no other offensive options. He did a pretty good job, but it was hardly great, especially with his playing style and mentality. He did not improve from his previous year and he definitely did not improve the next year. His production simply scaled with the increase of PT. That is not great or even good, that was expected. Now if he had developed any sort of finishing game or developed his D or court vision, I would have said "Yeah, he was good that year." If he had developed into a playmaker or a scorer that has a weapon aside from his long range bombs, then I would have said "Yeah, he was good that year." However, he was not good. He was not very efficient and considering that 3/5th of our starting lineup were offensive deadweights, his 20PPG was not very impressive, especially for someone who is a shooter in a motion offense and fancies himself a primary scoring option.

    AB was not good or great. He was mediocre. His results are something that scaled with his increased usage. He did not improve. He was not efficient aside from one area. His passing remained the same. His D remained non-existent. He simply lucked out on season where the situation was very favorable for him. Now that is simply the situation RIGHT NOW. He is young and as far as until he or Nash is moved, playing behind one of the greatest new age PG's and has a great opportunity to learn the position he wants to play. He will improve once he realizes what the PG position needs from him or realize that he may be more effective as a sharpshooting spark off the bench in possibly the two guard spot.

    If DM is to be believed for every damn thing he says (or anything he says for that matter about the Rockets) we would still have Carl Landry for crying out loud. He says whatever is PR positive for our players, regardless of whether or not he actually that good or not, because that is one of his jobs. If AB is as good as you are saying (not even what his rabid fanboys use to say), he would still be a Rocket, not trade bait for another backup. We went through three seasons of drama with T-Mac. If AB was good, we would have easily dismissed one "off yea" from him.
     
  20. t_mac1

    t_mac1 Member

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    Stay consistent please.

    So for him to lead a team with no "offensive weapons/options" in your opinion to a 42-40 record in the West is mediocre? That was expected?

    Who expected AB to produce like that? Nobody.
    Who expected the team to finish with that record to start the year? Nobody

    AB, and the team, overachieved and exceeded expectations. If that is mediocre, I don't know what your damn expectations are.

    and FYI: most players don't increase their production with increase in PT. Look at Trevor Ariza, Budinger, Jeff Green, and I can name many more players.

    AB's minutes increased, and his RESPONSIBILITIES also increased. You may not like whatever flaws AB may have had, but you REALLY can't appreciate what he brought to the table.

    Like I said, his teammates/management/NBA appreciated what he did that year.
     
    #120 t_mac1, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2011

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