President Obama announces that an eleventh-hour debt deal has been reached

I think that it is understandable to wish that defense could have been cut more, but after all, the main reason I hate the Tea Party so much is because they don’t deal with realities as they try to shove their psychotic ideals onto the political discourse in a way that would make John Galt proud. For that reason, it is important to look at things from the perspective of what one really could have done, especially with the American people voting as they did in 2010. So, if the defense cuts really happen the way Major describes it, it’s something that I don’t think merits total outrage. “The perfect is the enemy of the good” and all that – a concept I learned a lot of from supporting Ron Paul in the past.

 

That's like saying doing nothing has no impact. So if we all put our heads in the sand the economy may thank but it has nothing to do with us doing nothing!!!

This bill was suppose to address those items. They were part of the discussion. To just drop them doesn't mean the bill wasn't suppose to do it.

 

haha. You are so full of it dude. So a bill about fiscal policy isn't suppose to address the economic environment?

Wow. That's what you come back with? You either are some sort of extremist or you just have no clue.

 

if we cut defense we wont have expensive toys like these though

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uhmmm, as you may have noticed, the american people voted for the Tea Party in 2010.

 

I don't know about the economy, but this thread will thank if you put your head in the sand and do nothing (further.) j/k

 

The tea parties have served their country well. By stimulating the beginning of a course correction for our ship of state, the tea parties, if successful, will help the nation to steer clear of the looming economic iceberg.

When our next 11th hour debt crisis arrives, I hope the gang of 12 has compiled a gigantic card boxes of programs with the cost of each program budget on the card. Then let the trading begin. The Republicans can say "We'll trade one F-35 program for a program of equal value" and the Democrats would select a program they cherish but could give up. You get the idea. Both sides will see more clearly what they are willing to give up to reduce our crushing debt. But, fear not, Washington does not have the fortitude to even consider an even-handed trade-off.

 

Thanks for providing your insight. I for one am encouraged.

Despite a "political" perception of myself as a liberal, I do not let ideology impinge on pragmatism. I think, after all the folderol, the Dems came out much better than one could have expected.

 

Right, trade a F-35 for prescription drugs for the elderly, that kind of things?
The tea party sure has served their master well!

 

That's my point. The American people were stupid enough to vote the Tea Party in in 2010. So we have to deal with the reality that while the Tea Party is filled with stupid and insane people, they are representing a stupid and insane section of America, which for better or for worse will makes its voice heard. Given this factor, I think that to castigate Obama for not implementing ridiculous solutions such as a 50% slash on defense spending ignores political realities.

 

That is an incredibly naive approach that clearly exemplifies the tea party comprehension of government.

 

Yes, optimism is such sheer folly in light of this time of winning all or nothing. But I still hope for a rational approach to politics.

 

If that is the card you (assuming you are a Democrat) would toss in, then that would be your foolish choice. Personally, if I were tossing out a program in this scenario (assuming the cards were of equal value), as a Democrat I would choose a program like ACORN.

 

And there, once again, is tea party stupidity in a nutshell - assuming there's "equal value" in a program that costs $382 billion per year to one that receives maybe $2.5 million per year (though it currently receives about 0).

"Hey folks - LISTEN UP (assuming that the empire state building is the same size as my kid's pillow fortress) let me give you my views on structural engineering!"

 

How many other debt ceiling increases have been accompanied with fundamental changes to our spending/tax structure?

 

Maybe in a a week or two I will be up for research to find a better, closer example. However, you get the drift of what I propose. Each side should have a stack of programs graded by "value" to the party. A card like the F-35 program might require several Democratic cards to equalize cost. However, each party inherently would have to make choices on what they would sacrifice first to get to an agreed amount of total cuts.

 

Why do you think this bill "was suppose to address those items?"

 

It's too bad the F-35 program and other ridiculous spending items in the DoD are the things the Republican party wants to fight for.

I wish the tea party would focus it's attention on the defense budget. If they let that become a source of their anger maybe we could get legitimate spending cuts in defense that didn't actually take supplies away from our soldiers or weaken our ability to project power.

 

Wasteful spending is rife throughout federal projects. The Democrats focus on crying out that the tea parties would remove social security and medicare. There are proponents of that thinking within the tea parties, but most of the membership just wants controlled, effective expenditures in all areas of government. Actually I used the F-35 program because I couldn't think of corresponding pet programs in each major party.

However, in my opinion, we could scale the military back considerably by withdrawing from countries like Germany, which has it's own formidable armed forces. I would much prefer smaller, more manueverable, less costly pilotless aircraft that can be controlled from the deep caverns of this country. If a "pilot" gets shot down, he or she gets up from the console, gets a cup of coffee and waits for another drone to command.

Many of the tea partiers are like me -- recipients of Social Security and Medicare. I certainly earned those benefits as surely as anyone who draws one or both. Why would we want to curtail those programs? What we wish is to gain control of the system to make them more efficient to serve more people who have worked to achieve them.

As far as Iraq and Afghanistan, we need to declare victory and get the troops back home.