President Obama announces that an eleventh-hour debt deal has been reached

Lol, good god, we're owned

 

The methodology and the vehicle to force the issue was purely political. But both sides are in agreement that the trajectory we are on is unsustainable, in large part due to skyrocketing health care costs. Even independent of the debt ceiling costs, Obama launched the Debt Commission and both parties have talked extensively about the need to get long term budget issues under control. So the underlying issue is not something that was manufactured.

And as has been mentioned multiple times, this bill has zero effect on the economy between now and the end of 2012.

Agreed - but that doesn't change the fact that they wrecked it and we're now at the point that it has to be fixed. Saying "well they broke, so we're not going to fix it" is not a solution.

How? Please explain what *specifically* is in this bill that is harmful to the US' long term fiscal health.

If none of those things actually happen, then we get the trigger. Which is GREAT for Democrats - it's a lot of DoD cuts and Medicare Cuts that Dems favor anyway (cutting reimbursement rates to providers). Thanks to the trigger, Republicans have no leverage to hold anything hostage anymore - that's the whole point.

 

Eisenhower rates, sure. but we need eisenhower spending as well.

 

I don't at all think "both sides are in agreement that the trajectory we are on is unsustainable, in large part due to skyrocketing health care costs." If that were the case we would have had a much better healtch care bill.

Of course it does. The "deal" precludes any, much less significant, action that would improve the economy between now nad then. I would consider that a huge effect even if you want to just look at numbers right now and choose not to see it.

I wish I was as optimistic as you are. About the same time we're hearing from this Supergroup we'll be debating FY 2012 funding and a government shutdown will loom. Do you really think the Repubs won't hold the government hostage and then happily trade a horrible budget for reducing the risks to DOD?

 

where are the numbers from?

 

You like Eisenhower? Please. He couldn't be elected dogcatcher in the GOP today.

 

You keep saying this and completely ignore two things. One- we should have had a second stimulus to keep the economy on track, absent the larger stimulus we should have had originally. Instead, we get this. No stimulus and years of looking forward to decreased government spending. You may think that's a plus, but I don't. Two- you ignore the psychological impact of this bill. I think it will have a negative impact on the markets, a negative impact on business expansion, especially businesses who depend on government contracts to keep all or part of their employees working, of course, but not only them, and we will begin to see what we have been seeing in Austin after the recent Republican debacle (from the same brand of radicals on the right that we see having absurd influence in Washington all out of proportion to their numbers), in case you haven't noticed, which is the layoff of government workers in jobs that provide both benefits for their families, and a wage that allows a middle class living.

I could come up with more, but I'll await your dismissal of those two points, instead.

 

Vote is on.

 

Giffords is there, voting Yea.

 

deal passes the house.

 

glad to see she recovered...

 

umm that's a good thing Mitt.. I'm not voting for anyone who is not open to cutting our out of control defense spending..

agree with Mitt on the no higher taxes though.

 

Even for the 400 billionaires in the US, who are paying their lowest effective tax rates since the 1920's? Right now, including their generous loopholes and offshore havens, a lot of those folks pay a lower % than you and I do. I find that ridiculous and worthy of change.

Glad (and a little surprised) to hear the margin of the House vote. Nice Giffords touch.

 

They've ended subsidized loans for medical/graduate education so they wealthy could keep their tax breaks. Good job Republicans.

 

Not that I'm in love with this cluster**** of legislation, but I don't think "ended" is quite accurate. One grad school loan program quit being interest free, and another will no longer give a bonus (lowered) rate for those who've hit 12 straight months of loan payments on time.

That already sucks, but hurting Pell Grants would be an even larger travesty, and at least that didn't happen (yet.)

Agree that the top 1% could have solved all of this idiocy without even noticing a change in their finances or lifestyle, but they own this country and didn't want any part of that. Ah well. Will just have to wait for the uprising.

 

President Pell Grant held firm on that, and on kicking can past the 2013 election. good job PPG!

 

Freezing spending increases and cutting spend to health care providers which I understand will be the case is still cutting. It's a cut to end unemployment benefits extensions and let the payroll tax expire at the end of THIS year. That's a decrease in spend - a cut. So you are wrong, we are cutting the spending next year in a bad economy.

Our economy requires stimulus right now. It's in really bad shape.

The deal we should have had is stimulus for 2 years, cuts after that. Eliminate tax breaks on the richest to fund stimulus next year to jump start the economy. The first stimulus bill was enough to only stop the bleeding.

Obama saves the auto industry and prevented a great depression working with Bush's team. Repubs spin the stimulus as a waste but would be crying foul had they seen what would have happened if it wasn't passed. People think that bill was a cure all. It wasn't. It was meant to stop 1929. And it did.

People whine about 9% unemployment when we could have had 30%.

Still we need stimulus to get the economy going. We need to end oil subsidies and instead put that money into the people who pay $4 a gallon so the can fuel inject our economy.

The middle class is the heart of the economy. It's not about the poor. It's not about the rich. It's them and it's them who are hurting and get nothing out of this deal.

 

I know I shouldn't respond to you, but I don't think anyone believes it would actually be good policy to repeat this whole debacle next year.

 

Not true - both sides just have very different solutions to the problem. Which side do you think doesn't see our current trajectory as unsustainable?

There's nothing in this bill that precludes any additional spending or action anywhere else. Congress could just as easily pass a $500B stimulus package tomorrow as it could a month ago - there's nothing in this bill to stop that.

I think the GOP will definitely hold the government hostage. But I think that's a winning issue for Dems, as it was under Clinton. And unlike this debt situation, the Dems can easily call their bluff and let government shut down if needed. You won't have an economic collapse as the result of that.