Oswalt had a no-trade clause and could dictate where he wanted to go - that limits your leverage. And Pence, even after arbitration, will probably cost half as much as Oswalt.
I like the trade but I do kind of wish we got something that would be less of a sting in the near future. I am kind of glad we didn't settle for lesser ceiling players in AA or AAA than the prospects we got but it still stings. That is why I am clinging to hopes that JD Martinez can be the "proven commodity" to replace Pence. Hopefully he comes up and shines much like Pence did years ago. There were doubters about Pence's ability just like there were for Martinez so I can see similar production out of him. They also have very similar question marks, body styles, etc. The difference is JD's fielding might be too suspect but I expect his bat to do the talking. Here's to hoping JD will help ease the pain of losing Pence. Altuve helps with this as well considering he plays the game as hard as Pence does so maybe he can take the reins. I think that is another reason he was called up to see how fans reacted to a young, exciting player over a proven veteran.
The return the doesn't look favorable right now but Wallace has under 500abs, Happ was a rookie of the year candidate and Jonathan Villar is beginning to get it at CC. Like Major has said, Oswalt was a different deal because he killed all of Wade's leverage by demanding a deal,no-trade clause and demanding his option year be picked up. By the way, Oswalt was our #1 starter but their #3 last year and #4 this year...think about that.
I get a kick out of the national media who says we didn't get enough for Hunter. They see the name and the early season production and ignore everything else. Two key numbers to look at right now...OPS is .828 and BABIP is .368.
I know Hunter has been lucky this year with the high BABIP but how much of this average is attributed to luck AND HIS SPEED on the bases. I mean it seems like the last 2 years he was unlucky and this year is lucky but to me speed should help your BABIP tremendously since you can get more infield hits than the "league average" which is a joke of an indicator. I have heard a lot about his BABIP lately and not sure why it is considered an all luck thing while discounting his ability to get a ton of infield hits.
Wallace wasn't even part of the deal with the Phillies anyway. It was Gose, and he is a top 100 prospect in Double A now for the Blue Jays. There is a sliding scale as to what you can expect to get for a proven, good player like Pence. The more ML-ready you get in return, the lower the ceiling is going to be. You can get a high ceiling guy, but they will be a long way away. Think about it. If they had a guy that could come and contribute at the same pace as Pence, then why would they need Pence? The more sure of a thing a prospect is, the less likely you will get him obviously unless you are giving up a Roy Halladay or a Kemp from the Dodgers. Someone who is challenging for the MVP. Think about what the Blue Jays got for Halladay, who had just come off his 4th consecutive year o being top 5 in the Cy Young voting. Drabek(#25 prospect at the time), D'Arnaud(who was #81 at the time) and Taylor(#29 prospect). So we got two guys in the 40's and a guy in Zied that is probably in the 150-200 range or thereabouts. Pence is no Roy Halladay. Look at what the Padres got for Adrian Gonzales... Keley(#31 prospect), Fuentes (not top 100), Rizzo(#75 prospect) and Patterson(journeyman major leaguer) So, in essence, we got a comparable deal to what the Padres got for Gonzalez. Pence is no where near Gonzalez is terms of production. I think people need to get a grip on what to expect in return for a guy like Pence.
That's some good perspective, Panama. I'm actually pretty excited about Zeid out of the bullpen. I watched him pitch at Tulane and after trying to be a starter for a while, it looks like he has found his niche in the bullpen.
Now I understand why everyone thought the Red Sox fleeced the Padres. What a horrible deal. It's like if we traded Lance Berkman in his prime for the same deal as Pence.
True but Minor is a polished #2 or even #1. That said, If they weren't giving up anything like Singleton then I can see why Wade said no.
The prime of Hunter Pence does not begin to compare to the prime of Lance Berkman. Berkman is a borderline Hall of Famer who can carry a team. Pence is a solid player.
I've never seen anyone call Minor a potential ace. All of the scouting reports I have read have said he is a 2 or 3.
I think Minor is more of a good 3. High floor but relatively low ceiling. Comparable to a left handed Lyles. Nice player but I'd prefer the Phillies package vs. a deal centered around Minor (with none of the Braves other 4 top pitching prospects). If you told me 2 weeks ago this was the package they could get for Pence I'd be happy. Rumors of Brown or a May/Biddle +Phillies deal or two of the Braves' 4 skewed my perspective a little. Still it's a good haul (much better than the oswalt one). I think Singleton is gonna be a beast, but it's a little unfortunate to use two of your big bullets on 1b only players (wallace and singleton). Now hoping Bourn can be moved for Minor or Delgado and Wandy for one of the Arizona high A 3bmen.
Exactly. I don't get how people either overvalue Pence or underrate what Berkman-type players can do.
I've seen a few reports that say he could be an ace but a #2 is more his ceiling with a #3 his floor so your right. Basically safer then Cosart but not as high a ceiling.
Pence gets overvalued because people like him. He had a kid-like approach to the game that is rare in pro sports today and he seemed like a fun person to be around. People that think Pence is a great player are talking from their hearts and not from their heads.
