Have you ever heard of Quantitative Easing. This happens when the country "prints money" to pay for it's own debt. This is what we have been doing. The money for the incurred debt has to come from somewhere. Either foreign interest purchase our debt or we "print money". When foreign interest quit buying our debt the only thing we can do is "print money". The more money we print makes the value of the dollar go down and also decreases the value of the debt held by the foreign interest. When the foreign interest realize the debt they are buying cost them money because it becomes more and more worthless they will stop buying our debt. Like I said there will never be any consequences. We will never **** anything up by spending. Spend baby spend. PRINT, PRINT, PRINT, PRINT,..............................................................................................................................................................................................................
With the 20 to 1 left to right ratio on this forum, there are very few honest discussion. Whenever anyone post something in opposition to the left position they are attacked by the abnormal majority of left leaning people here. I work and don't have time to respond to all the attacks I get when I try to engage in honest discussion hear. Heck, I don't blame y'all for doing it. You do have the majority hear. Thankfully it is not that way in the real world. I respect all the people on this forum for their passion for their beliefs even if I don't agree with the overwhelming majority. Peace:grin:!!!!!
have you ever heard trying to understand what you are talking about so as to not sound quite so off-kilter? The debt limit battle really isn't related to QE1 or QE2...and I don't think that getting into a discussion of monetary/fiscal policy in a liquidity trap era is going to help. You are very confused and are making an incoherent argument - to the point where I think watching the DVD set of the entire run of NBC's "Alf" with director's commentary turned on would be a better use of my time.
????? You make no sense. Do you really believe I don't know what the debt ceiling is LOL. If we do not raise the debt ceiling, the only thing we can do is spend the tax dollars that come into the government. We can't spend more than what tax revenue we take in without increasing the debt ceiling. Increasing the debt ceiling, allows the government to spend more than they take in (also known as borrowing). If you don't think this all ties into "printing money" then you are the incoherent one. The money the government spends has to come from the taxes they are taking in or if they exceed the money they are taking in the have to borrow it. This borrowing, comes from foreign interest purchasing our debt or us "printing money" to purchase our own debt(Quantitative Easing).
You don't seem to know what QE means. That is where the Fed buys US Treasuries from cash they have on hand. It isn't really printing money, despite what the pundits say. It is the US government selling debt to the Fed, without question, but printing money, not so much.
Note that I don't throw out straw men or engage in other logical fallacies. The truly sad part is that people on the right tend to throw out straw men like yours so much that many people actually believe that they constitute a logically valid argument.
Uh, so why don't you explain to me legally then how the debt ceiling affects the federal reserve's ability to purchase outstanding debts?
That's because people like you make dumbass arguments that make no sense. You'll notice that StupidMoniker was able to engage in a perfectly rational discussion with people on the left in this thread. It has nothing to do with left vs right - it has to do with ignorant vs not. Quite playing the helpless victim and just educate yourself.
Perhaps if you stopped trying to be snarky and whining and was substantive you would have an honest discussion. If you read through this thread you will note that Stupidmoniker, a self-declared conservative, has been having a very substantive debate with other posters because instead of whining about being outnumbered he is actually making informed arguments. See once again Major has beaten me to it.
There's a difference between right-wing concern about the debt, and the concerns about printing money, ( and I have no clue why people are so concerned about printing money given the inflation rate. Oh wait, I do, it's Paultards spamming the net with their crap.) In the end, the Democrats and more reasonable Republicans, ( like say, John McCain) understand that while it is important to reform government so we can deal with the deficit, this stupid battle over the debt ceiling is not the answer, especially with Tea Party refusal to consider pretty much any plan at all. And it is people like you who are willing to play politics with our debt so that idiotic idea of a BBA can be passed. That's just craziness, period.
Hmm, when the Fed uses money it already has in its accounts, it is purchasing securities on the open market. This is not creating, nor is it printing money.
I like this plan. Though, it just wouldn't feel right without forcing the rich to pay for it through taxes.
Sorry I'm late to the party. Obama unilaterally raising the debt ceiling and then claiming the 14th Amendment as justification sounds like a terrible idea. Political suicide for Obama, a Supreme Court defeat in the making anyway, we'd lose our AAA rating anyway, and doesn't address at all the deficit problem that caused all the ruckus in the first place. It sounds to me like the most disastrous outcome possible.
So the condition is that BOTH chambers of Congress pass a CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT by the required SUPER MAJORITY? Yeah.... that'll work.
So, just to recap: Republicans have been pushing the talking point about the economic certainty they would provide versus the economic uncertainty the Obama administration is providing. However... - Obama cut a deal with the Repubs to extend the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy because they were so against the letting those cuts expire for the wealthy that they held the poor and misddle class hostage until they got their way. - We narrowly averted a government shutdown over the 2011 Fiscal Year budget because Obama gave in to huge cuts in order to appease Repubs who become fixated on the debt whenever a Dem gets in the WH. This, in the middle of a huge economic downturn when the interest on money is historically low and the only sane thing would have to do another more complete stimulus. - Now we're in the middle of a debt ceiling crisis because the Repubs made it a rhetorical point and political litmus test even though it has been a routine bipartisan thing for decades. - As part of a solution, Boehner now wants to revisit this whole debate in a few months and is trying to pass a bill that would require a Balanced Budget Amendment for the debt ceiling to be raised again. - On top of that, the budgets for FY 2012 need to be passed by September 30 or we're in for another round of a possible government shutdown. So, just in the last 8 months, Repubs have or are in the process of creating 5 huge periods of economic uncertainty. Brilliant.
