Oslo Attacks: Suspicion Falls on Attackers Rather than Religion I Don't Like

LOL

 

I read one thing in his manifesto that screams Christian god-warrior, then I read another paragraph that makes me think this guy wouldn't be caught dead in a church or holding a Bible. I guess such a drastic back and forth, start-and-stop, nonsensical philosophy is to be expected from somebody who is likely psychotic. In the end, he really comes off as more anti-Muslim than pro-Christian.

I'm not sure who Ben Stevens is, but I thought this was an interesting article that highlights the "run from Christianity"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ben-stevens/what-kind-of-fundamentali_b_910071.html

One particularly weird excerpt from Anders:

No doubt there are Christian fingerprints all over this guy's mind (and I have zero interest in defending Christianity, or any other religion, as you've probably figured out over the years), but I'm still looking for a causal link. When we have religious terrorism, you usually see a very obvious, attributable motive. Passages, scripture, etc. Something they directly point to as their impetus for believing what they believe and doing what they did. Unfortunately, this isn't as simple as "god told me to do it, look, it says it right here on page 19, paragraph 3."

But like Harris said, the emergence of a different kind/breed of terrorism does nothing to diminish the threat of terrorism that already exists. It only adds to our problems, and by the looks of it, will make open/reasoned discussion of those issues even more difficult going forward.

 

You won't find a causal link from Christianity to this guy, or any other religion to other terrorists. The causal link comes from insanity, mistreatment (sometimes mistreatment of a particular religion that then uses the religion to stir up passion), economics, oppression, and unreasonable links in the killer's mind to any number of of those other things.

Take someone who is mentally vulnerable, and anything can be used as the trigger, whether it's religion or not, but it isn't really a cause.

 

I beg to differ.

If you have a religion where there are no violent directives, then it is very unlikely (if not impossible), for any of its followers to commit violence in the name of that religion (especially if that religion forbids violence, such as jainism).

If you have a religion where there *are* violent directives, especially those which are very unambiguous in nature (i.e. kill someone in the name of this religion and be rewarded, if someone does X then you must kill them, etc), then it is likely (if not certain), that some people will commit violence in the name of that religion. We've seen several incidences where people commit violence and then point *directly* to these commands.

Yes, everything you mentioned factors in as well, but to ignore the divine catalyst is folly.

This is a discussion we've had about a dozen times already on this BBS, any one of which can be found here:

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/search.php?searchid=218953

 

Arguably accurate but moot.

 

This is admittedly a huge exaggeration, but a decent picture of at least the direction in which Muslim thinking has gone since the Oslo tragedy:

 

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

 

WEll thats the thing, the general theme in christianity and islam as a whole is about inner peace and being a good person, yada yada. That is spoken consistently throughout. There are specific instances within context that talk of other things that are towards violence.

In the quran in reference to certain wards it has one part about being able to marry more than one wife, and it goes on because this was a war that left many orphans, that this is only if you can treat them equally and only if the reason is to take in all the orphans of those defeated adn give them a proper upbringing. Yet the people who want to abuse this ignore all of that and just take it as a more wives thing. Thats one example, there are others in there about violence so on. Yet ultimately it talks about killing one innocent or being the aggressor ever is an ultimate sin.

Jihad itself has been misconstrued. While it was used to refer to the war at that time, but ultimately it just means struggle. Its primary meaning is the struggle to be a better human being(son, member of your community,student, contributor to the wrold, etc). There is a hadith where a soldier comes home and tells the prophet he has just done the great jihad and fought in the war to which the prophet responds saying along the lines that you have parents and a family that need you at home, a great jihad is if you looked after them and made sacrifices to become the best human being you could be(roughly). So the tone is pretty clear about what the main focus is on.

In the bible, you can find a passage saying that anyone who does not accept jesus/god must be stoned, even if it is your family member you must stone them. Ofcourse the general jist of the bible is about peace, forgiving, and acceptance. Yet you will find these phrases here and there similar to the quran.

Millions of people have said christianity and islam has helped them find purpose and peace in life,and that is because that is what htey are looking for. Yet we do have people that have tried to use these grounds as motivations for violence and hate and exclusion of others when the book clearly says otherwise, should we blame the ideologies, should we dignify their own inner struggles that are often related to politics, socioeconomic status, or some anger yet they use the voice of religion to justify it.

Its similar to many people in the past thinking black people are inheritely different from whites. They like to point to jail rates or graduation rates to back up this claim and refuse to dig deeper and find its more related to socioeconomic status and that a white growing up in a similar situation, or a red, yellow whatever often will fall under similar faiths. My main point is that assigning these blames are elementary logic by the mass and we should look dee~per at the sources rather than generalizing and painting with a broad stroke. 'its not a clash of civilizations, but a clash of ignorance'

 

Damn those blond Norwegians and their exploding turbans!

Kandahar mayor killed by suicide bomber with explosives in turban

 

Another blond Norwegian "Christianist"!

Uzbek accused of threats to Obama

 

Foreign student frustrated over student visa problem making nutty threat to kill the U.S. President? The significant of this to the Norway situation being what exactly?

 

He was a career non-terrorist until he blew himself up

 

A life-long live human being, too!

 

Authorities say Kodoriov voiced support for Islamic extremists and "did not care if he lost his life killing the president.''

 

Exploding turbans? Sounds like someone is reading too many Dutch cartoons.

 

What is scary is that there are some on the far right who PRAISED this man.

It's clear that racism and xenophobia is real and a lot more pervasive then people will admit.

Hate has no limits. There are Christians who hate and there are Muslims who hate. Its about time people wise up.

 

Seriously? Who?

Anyone who praises this guy is a complete idiot without any morals.

 

A good discussion:

<embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://static.bloggingheads.tv/ramon/_live/players/player_v5.2-licensed.swf" flashvars="diavlogid=37669&file=http://bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/liveplayer-playlist-ramon/37669/04:13/08:42&config=http://static.bloggingheads.tv/ramon/_live/files/offsite_config.xml&topics=false" height="288" width="380" allowscriptaccess="always" id="bhtv37669" name="bhtv37669"></embed>

 

Another psychopathic Norwegian with a bomb.

AWOL GI arrested with bomb items near Ft. Hood