Its not that TDS are the end all-be all. Its that Andre (with exception for injury shortened 2007) hasnt even stumbled upon ONE big TD year in 8 years. When guys like JAMES JETT can get a 12 TD a season. Yes, David Carr, spread the ball around system, strong running game, effective tight ends, etc, kept Andre from getting TDS. Mighta answered my question but its just a curious thing that its only AJ of all the top flight WRs not finding the endzone enough. Freaking Hakeem Nicks is stepping in grabbing 11 TDS. Lets start force feeding Andre in the endzone then.
And that is why the vast majority would take AJ over Moss. It was bad enough that Moss broke the law from time to time, and he was a guy that opened his mouth, but the worst offense of all was the quitting on his team and taking plays off.
Only if Vince Carter went to the finals and owned every single season record there was. I don't like Moss, but many of you dismiss his abilities because of his attitude. His success with the Viking and Patriots speaks for itself. The dude is a touchdown machine and was the scariest receiver ever. Yes he quit on plays and had poor ethic, but despite that he is only second to Jerry Rice by the numbers.
I just don't understand the logic at all here. Why does Dre have to measure up to prime Moss, but not Rice? Why shouldn't they both be compared? I agree with you that a motivated Moss is the most talented and feared receiver to ever play the game. Period. Unfortunately, he won't go down as the best ever - or even in the top five, most likely - because his stints of motivation were so few and far between. Moreover, when Moss wasn't motivated, he didn't just not produce. His attitude was a detriment, and it could be argued that he made his teams worse, which is why they cut him. As a result, guys like Rice and Andre will go down as better overall players, when evaluating the entirety of their careers. But if you're going to look at it in terms of peak Moss versus peak Andre - which I think is a flawed measuring stick, for starters - then you also have to look at peak Moss compared to peak Rice. Even if we use your measuring stick, not sure why you seem to think that Andre has this "Moss" threshold to contend with and Jerry doesn't. (For the record, on the debate as a whole, I think you have to rate Rice in front simply based on touchdowns. But that figure is a bit skewed based on the teams Andre was a part of for the first several years of his career. If he picks up the TDs in coming years (given strong team around him, he might), I think Andre passes him. But not yet.)
rating a WR "just on touchdowns" is like rating a DE "just on sacks". Come on, we're all smarter than that. and, TD or not, Andre isn't likely to pass Jerry Rice.
It's silly to rate a receiver just on touchdowns, of course, but it is a part of the package. Just as sacks are a part of the package for evaluating a defensive end. I do believe there is a specific skill that some receivers have that makes them added threats in the end zone. Rice clearly had it. We'll see on AJ, now that he has a team around him (and won't be playing on a gimpy ankle like all of 2010). Also, when I say passes Rice, I mean in terms of actual on-field value. I know the casual fan/common perception will remain with Rice, given that he played for a storied franchise and won four Super Bowls. But if Andre continues his current pace for four or five more years, has a couple of standout TD seasons and the Texans find playoff success... I think the educated crowd may view Andre as the superior player. Lot of ifs, of course, but I feel like being an optimist today. At least while Asomugha and Weddle are still floating as possibilities.
Whether we see with Andre depends on much more than him -- it depends on the play calling, the quality of the o-line, whether the other targets pose any kind of a threat, whether we almost always throw to the underneath WR or the TE, whether we run the same lame draw play three times in a row... it's the ultimate team game. As to the skill of going up and getting it, AJ has proven he can do that. finally, if you think Dre has a chance of equalling or surpassing Rice "with the educated crowd", then you certainly do have a very, very high opinion of him. Do you believe he already stands among the all-time greats?
I do, but I think it's based partly on conjecture. Andre is a unique case. You're right in that it's a team game, and TD numbers are largely dependent on those around him. But of the generally-accepted top tier of wideouts, almost all have had at least a couple of seasons in which the stars aligned. By that I mean double-digit touchdowns, teams going deep into the playoffs, and ultimately making plays in really big games. Right now, there's still a lot of "what if" with Andre. What kind of numbers would he have if his first four seasons weren't with David Carr? What kind of TD numbers could he have had if he didn't miss half the season in his first year with Matt Schaub, or hobble around on a bad ankle for all of 2010? What if Kubiak's red-zone plays were better? What if he didn't play on a team with arguably the worst defense in NFL history, allowing more opportunities for the offense and potentially putting the Texans into the playoffs? I think there are some in the educated crowd that already think highly enough of Andre to give him a pass based on those situations. But on the whole, for Andre to be thought of as an all-time great, I think he needs at least a couple of years in which the stars align, allowing him more TDs and putting him on a strong enough team to give him an opportunity in crucial games. I really, really think the Texans are talented enough and due for that to happen. But we'll see.
Really? I agree Moss had a really bad attitude at times and maybe took some years off (Oakland), but most of the time he DID produce. -10 out of his 13 years he caught over 1,000 yards. 6 of those years he had over 1,300 yards. -Moss's yards per catch average is 15.6, 2 yard higher than Andre's -Moss also had nine seasons with at least 10 TDs, including four with at least 15 TD's, three seasons with at least 17 TDs, and a season where he had 23 TD's. Andre has a ways to go to catch Moss.
I don't agree with this. Moss put up some of the best WR stats ever. Carter's best season was a 23 PER.
Blocking, Randy Moss has never been a good blocker, He goes deep or he doesn't do anything. Andre helps you all over the field, and does so for the ENTIRE GAME.
T.O. Bro. I can't speak for the All-Time Greats because I don't know much about them but personally I think T.O. was just as good or better than Randy in the last 10 to 15 years. Also, he has a ring.
Moss's yards per catch and TD were high, because dude was deep-or-nothing. Not saying he wasn't great; just saying I'll take AJ over him. Every day.
