Yo, kaleido... how do you feel about the Caps' offseason moves? That team is going to kill me, man. I've followed no sports team in my life longer than the Caps and I happen to also be an Indians and Astros fan. Somebody please shoot me. Brouwer was a good move. Vokoun should be a good move. Ward was OK. Hamrlik was OK. I'm psyched about Halpern coming home, less because of his hockey abilities and more becasue I grew up with him. I want Schultz and Chimera gone. I have little faith in McPhee or Boudreau. That's a rough summary. Could go on for hours but won't do it here. Apologies for the derail but not worthy of a thread.
I disagree. I think you should get about what you got (or should have got) for Roy. They definitely should get more than they got for Lance. A key thing is he's relatively cheap this year and is under club control for two more years. This isn't a two month rental like Beltran is/was. If he's available, he, not Beltran, is the best positional asset on the market (due to age, health, contract).
Right, because those home runs have gotten us right back into contention. We could have Babe Ruth in the middle of this lineup and we aren't going anywhere or doing anything for another 2-3 years, longer than that if we don't trade said asset for multiple assets. We have enough position players in the system now that if a few pan out we could have a nice little lineup by 2014, but we still have absolutely no pitching prospects. If you could swing Pence and Bourn or a top 100 type pitching prospect each you would be much better off in the long run. We have guys that could theoretically take Pence and Bourn's place and do similarly, but we have a bunch of back end rotation guys/middle relievers if that.
This is ridiculous. This as every bit as bad a strategy as trying to rebuild with over-the-hill veterans. Trading good major leaguers for good prospects has been the strategy of the Royals for a long time. It's why they've been irrelevant for 25 years, despite almost always having a good farm system. We got a good prospect for Keppinger. Trading Pence for "good prospects" is a ticket for Texas League Championships and Pacific Coast League Championships. I don't care much about that.
Their WARs are close, and their oWAR are both 3.5. Hunter Pence is 6 years younger, would be more than a half year rental (Though this may actually be a negative for small market teams), has never been on the DL, unlike Beltran who has missed half of the last 2 seasons. I don't think the difference should be much. I'm actually surprised at reports showing Beltran definitely being shopped, and the Mets willing to pick up a majority of the money, since the Mets actually have a winning record. Of course the 2 weeks they spent without Reyes facing good teams has moved them a few more games back of the Braves.
I seriously doubt that this is true. Beltran is getting all of the talk on ESPN because he's a Met. I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts that Pence is more valued in every front office.
Comparing the Royals, Tampa and Pittsburgh to the Stros is not really fair. Those franchises tried to rebuild on the cheap for a long time and made dumb choices along with bad luck. Stros are a upper middle market team that still out draws contenders even when they are historically bad. Get the right people on place, use the resources available wisely and give them time and it would be a much different story.
The Royals actually HAVE NOT had a good farm system the entire time. It's often had 1 or 2 supposedly good prospects and then a bunch of filler. It wasn't until the last few years that they started getting a plethora of good prospects down in the minors. The Royals usually had a good player to call up like a Beltran and then a bunch of scrubs they crossed their fingers about like Berroa. Pittsburgh, again, has actually NOT had a lot of good players in the minor leagues over the years. They've had a few of them that are spaced out enough to not come together at one time. However, the Astros should not try to be the Royals or Pittsburgh. They should try to be Detroit or Anaheim. They are not a small market. The only reason they are in the state they are in now is because they totally depleted and then ignored the minors for so many years that they couldn't bring up enough league average players to fill out a roster and then supplement with FA.
@Buster_ESPN The Phillies would prefer to structure any of their Hunter Pence offers around Vance Worley
Worley's numbers this season 07/20 @ CHC W 9-1 8.0 4 1 1 0 2 7 7 12 29 111 W(6-1) -- 2.02 07/15 @ NYM W 7-2 5.1 4 1 1 0 4 4 6 9 23 105 W(5-1) -- 2.15 07/04 @ FLA W 1-0 7.0 2 0 0 0 2 6 8 9 25 100 W(4-1) -- 2.20 06/29 vs BOS W 2-1 7.0 5 1 1 0 2 5 11 9 27 116 W(3-1) -- 2.57 06/24 vs OAK W 1-0 6.0 1 0 0 0 4 4 9 6 23 105 -- -- 2.83 06/18 @ SEA W 5-1 5.0 5 1 1 1 2 3 9 8 22 96 -- -- 3.41 05/29 @ NYM L 5-9 3.0 12 8 5 0 0 1 9 11 21 71 L(2-1) -- 3.75 05/24 vs CIN L 3-6 5.0 6 3 3 0 4 3 3 15 25 93 -- -- 2.14 05/13 @ ATL W 5-4 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 1 3 0 4 8 -- H(2) 1.13 05/09 @ FLA W 6-4 3.0 2 1 1 1 2 2 5 4 13
Sure, Worley, Cosart and Singleton would be a great deal. If Wade trades him for Worley and a few middle relievers and Mayberry....I might go absoutly crazy.
Yeah, worley is not gonna work. Despite how good he has been, none of the scouts have ever pegged his stuff as being more than a 4/5 starter. He actually reminds me of Happ who despite his era and record in philly didnt really have good stuff and you really didnt expect it to continue ....and it has all come crashing down this year.
Yeah, Happ's development we likely hurt by his initial success when brought up to the big leagues. Sort of like Scott Elarton back in the day. He needs to be more of a groundball pitcher, working on his location of both of his off speed pitches to to pitch to contact that is not fly balls. He really needs to be sent to AAA in my opinion to work on that without the pressure that comes with being on the big league team. Anyways, I just don't fancy the Astros trading with the Phillies in general. They are just not a team that is desperate enough to give away big prospects for either a pitcher or batter given they are fairly loaded at both.
exactly what i was thinking. why do i have a feeling that wade is going to accept some sort of position in the phillies organization the instant he gets canned here?
is gammons even a relevant source anymore? can't imagine that pence goes from likely going to likely staying within 18 hours with 10 days left to go before the deadline. also can't imagine all AL GM's suddenly deciding that they refuse any NL arms. sounds like gammons is trying to create his own news.
