An extension of the Yao thread in GARM. Got me thinking. I really do not see him being better than (could be but who knows, I just really doubt it unless his overall offensive game improves drastically): Hakeem Kareem Wilt Russell Shaq Moses Not really sure about him v Robinson, Walton Could end up being on the level of: Ewing Reed Mikan Etc But those guys are all really really good. What are your thoughts?
i think the media may make him to be a top 15 maybe a top 10 but he honestly doesnt deserve to be that high..the fact he has won like 4 DPOY awards in a row or something is a total joke He is a great player no doubt but had he played in the 90s he would not be better than Shaq, Hakeem, Ewing, Robinson, Mourning and probably just a step about Dikembe since Howard has more of an offensive game. Howard has benefited greatly from playing in an era with little to few centers, you can see how poorly he fared against Yao when they played head to head and Yao was probably the only other center Howard went up against that could probably hold his own in the 90s. (ancient Shaq does not count in my book) Hopefully there will be another era of true centers again soon
hakeem also had problems with mark eaton. similar to the problems dwight had with yao. i don't know, i would have said no until he gained some obvious valuable training from working out with dream
because eaton wasn't a scorer. the point is that eaton gave hakeem problems on hakeem's offensive end. if hakeem had to guard yao, he probably wouldn't be too much more effective than howard. i know you're gonna balk at that statement but unfortunately hakeem never really played anyon like yao on the defensive end to make a good comparison
Watching the video of Dream and Howard working out together, it's clear that Dream is still the better basketball player. Even at near 50 he's so much more fluid and precise than Howard ever will be. Anyway, the top 6 are indisputable. Hakeem Kareem Wilt Russell Shaq Moses Walton may get some proponents that would put him in that group, but he didn't perform at that level for a long enough time. Still, he's in the next 5. Also, there is no way Howard is better than Robinson or Ewing, so now we're at 9 Mikan was the first center a multi-championship was built around and he pushed the position into the modern era. Just for that, he deserves some accolades. Everyone wants to put Duncan as a PF, but he's a quasi-Center. Howard is certainly not better than Duncan. But even if you throw Mikan out for playing in the 1950's and continue with the charade of Duncan as a PF, the next tier has people like Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Artis Gilmore, Bob Lanier, Dave Cowens, Robert Parrish, Alonzo Mourning, and Dikimbe Mutombo. Right now, he seems to me like he's more Nate Thurmond than anyone. Similar size, scoring numbers, similar blocks, and probably similar rebounding after you adjust Nate's numbers for the current game. Of course, Nate did it against Russell, Chamberlain, Jabbar, Reed, Lanier, and Cowens.
Myabe, but I will point out that Yao never went up agianst a defender like Dream either... and Dream is an infinitely better student of the game than Howard. The first problem for Yao would be the entry pass. I can see Dream fronting and shading and denying, then dirupting or stealing the pass... and having the quickness to recover if Yao did catch it.
I don't really know but my gut says that every center you list is better than dwight. Maybe I'm underestimating dwight here.
The top 6 are clearly ahead of Howard. He's also definitely behind David Robinson. That leaves him #8 at best. I'm not old enough to appreciate the 50's-70's guys other than Wilt and Russell. He's pretty close to Mourning and Ewing while a bit ahead of Dikembe. So it depends on how you rate the old generation guys whether he makes the top 10. Even if he has an incredible career from here on, it will be very hard for him to pass Robinson or Moses.
Those guys are all head and shoulders above him. He is the most athletic center ive seen since hakeem, but he relies less on skill and fundamentals. No midrange game, awkward post moves, and a walking foul on defense. Had he played in the 90's he would spend half the season on the bench in foul trouble. There are no true centers in the league today, when in the past these guys listed would face an oposing dominant big man at least 4-5 games per month.
Wilt Russell Hakeem Kareem Shaq Moses He's already out of the top 5. It gets interesting, though. That leaves 4 spots left. George Mikan David Robinson Patrick Ewing Walt Bellamy (he's forgotten in these discussions) Bob Lanier Artis Gilmore Robert Parish Nate Thurmond Dave Cowens Bill Walton Alonzo Mourning Dikembe Mutombo Yao Ming Aryvdas Sabonis (Dwight is better than aging, injury riddled Sabonis, no way he is as good as 20 something year old Sabonis, so I'll give him the nod on that one.) My school of though, if Yao's not getting in the top 10, I do not think it would be much easier for Dwight, unless he goes into championship mode. No, not yet.
Kevin Willis was never a DPOY. The only way Howard gets in the top ten is if his offensive game improves greatly of the next few years. If he can maintain what he did in the playoffs last year for a few seasons, then I would put him there because of how he is defensively. He intimidates more than anyone I've seen outside of Deke and Dream.
Shaq, Yao, Duncan, Bogut, Gasol (Marc), etc, where do people get the idea that Howard played in a center-less era? The game changes and players change as well. Howard is my age, 25. What was Hakeem doing that made you think "GOAT" or "Top 5" when he was 25? Saying Howard doesn't deserve consideration for being amongst the best centers in NBA history simply because there was fewer competition is like when people say Mike Tyson wasn't very good because there was very little competition. Dwight Howard is now the clear-cut best center in the game right now. You've got to respect a man who has lead the NBA in total rebounds 5 out of the 7 years of his career. Plus he will be playing Houston soon, learn to love Dwight.
the problem with dwight and the reason he wont get into the top 10 is because he has no go to move. It was alright his first couple of seasons, but by now he should have something more than a dunk/dunk off a rebound. He is a better defender than Ewing but probably even with Robinson, but those guys were light years ahead on the offensive end. In a league with a very few good big men, if he was a top 10 center he could and should easily average around 30pts, 13-14boards (which he does), and 3.5-4 blocks. Ive honestly been surprised at how low his Blocks per game are. It seems like he gets a lot more because when he does get them he throws them into the 5th row, but hes never even averaged 3 blocks. I think hes simply an athletic freak with a good personality so the media makes him out to be better than what he really is. Now, do I want him on my team?? Hell yes.
60s: Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Nate Thurmond, Willis Reed, Walt Bellamy 70s: Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Dave Cowens, (older Kareem), Bob Lanier, Bill Walton, Nate Thurmond, Bob McAdoo (tweener, like Duncan), Wes Unseld, Dan Issel, Alvan Adams, and Elmore Smith 80s, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Moses Malone, Robert Parish, Brad Daugherty, Patrick Ewing, Hakeem Olajuwon, Mark Eaton, Bill Cartwright, Jack Sikma, Ralph Sampson, James Edwards, Bill Laimbeer, Joe Barry Carroll, and Mychal Thompson. 90s: Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Shaquille O'Neal, Dikembe Mutombo, Alonzo Mourning, Vlade Divac, Aryvdas Sabonis, Rony Seikaly, Rik Smits, and (briefly) Marcus Camby. 2000s, by far weakest era for centers, outside of the 50s. Duncan, he's with power forwards as far as categories though, but he does play center or against the other teams premier scoring big guy. Yao Ming, was injured most of the time, he had his way with Howard, when healthy. Shaq and Ben Wallace, were in serious decline by the time Howard was becoming a all-star. At least with Yao, he played against both players when they were still All NBA players. In Shaq's case, the last few years of his MVP form. Bogut, Kendrick Perkins, Tyson Chandler, Macus Camby, Nene, Zydranus Illgaukas and Gasol. They're ok players. It doesn't stack up to past generations.
