Incidentally, I have to quash the bulls*** Israel supporters always knock out there about a "balanced narrative.". Yes, Hamas should be rightfully denounced and their tactics are reprehensible. However, ever since Israel's founding, the United States has vetoed every motion on Israel, and provided massive amounts of money to fund Israel's existence. For the United States, there has never been a balanced narrative on Israel, to the point where somehow, military aid to Israel has become less cuttable than food aid to Americans!
Yeah, what about this one? http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1906664,00.html Or is Time too partial?
Not sure how much of these accounts is true, so far it is all hearsay. Do you think that people who throw rocks that could kill people at those people might also lie about those people having beaten them? Not saying it never happened (because I don't know), but considering the hate they have inside, I think you have to take this hearsay about alleged torture with a grain of salt. No, you lose it when you direct all your anger at those who are not the scum of the earth instead of directing some of it at those who indeed are the scum of the earth, as you yourself admit. No, I don't accept that. They are opposing sides, but, as you say, Hamas is the scum of the earth, and Israel is the side that is confronted with the scum of the earth attacking them with methods only the scum of the earth would use. When you are attacked like that, you have to defend yourself somehow. Do they always act right when they do so? No, they don't. But all the Israel hate by some people here, while almost ignoring the atrocities committed by Hamas, needs to be answered with a reality check. You are welcome for that.
Your allegations of anti-Semitism are lame, and ill-founded. Nowhere have I suggested that I dislike Jews. Nowhere. I dislike the policies of the state of Israel. If you cannot see the difference, than I am afraid your ignorance knows no bounds.
This article contains hearsay from one boy (that is free) and who has probably (like basically almost all Palestinian children and like most children in the Arab world) been brought up to hate Israel, and been indoctrinated from an early age. <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/X8fRMqWOBuM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Here is another video about what children in Palestine are taught about Israel. WARNING: I just realized this is a rather graphic video with shots from scenes after suicide bombings. <iframe width="480" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/etDb5tXPawc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Israel is one of the worst countries out there in terms of human rights violations. Why bother wasting anger on Hamas? Last I checked, the United States had them labeled as a terrorist group. I don't think anyone here thinks Hamas is a force for good, although it is certainly a force Israel has created by refusing to negotiate honestly with the PA from the First Intifada onwards. My anger is directed at the largest recipient of American foreign aid, a prodigal son that creates terrorists with beyond repressive measures and violates international law at a whim, knowing the US veto is always behind them. You want a balanced narrative? Cut all aid to Israel. Don't declare them a terrorist nation, since you're right, they're slightly better than Hamas. It's about time a lawless state like Israel got punished for stooping so low.
Oh yeah ATW, a good way to dispel the education the children are receiving are to kidnap them and beat them and curse at them, and shoot non-violent protesters, that'll show them. And the report in question about systematic abuse of child prisoners was filed by a Geneva-based NGO, were they raised to hate Israel too?
Sorry, but this typical "logic" applied by anti-semites: Israel is the root of all evil. Even suicide bombers who kill Israeli citizens, even those who kidnap Israelis and isolate them from the world for 5 years, even those who fire rockets at Israel - all Israel's fault. That's what you are basically saying above, Northside Storm. Sorry, but it reveals your mindset (as if your other posts didn't). Again - you with the "Israel is the root of all evil, it even creates the terrorists who kill their civilians" "logic". You wish. That's the difference: Israel has had the military power to wipe some of their neighbors off the face of the earth - but they haven't done so. You and I know that if the balance of power had been reversed, Israel would already have been destroyed. Don't tell me you don't know that that is the ******* truth.
On this story. yes. Look it's easy as hell for you up in Canuckistan to criticize the Israelis because you have no skin in the game. You're not surrounded by hundreds of millions of people who have wanted to annihilate your entire country for 60 years now. Sure, the Israelis are not perfect, but you'll never be in their shoes and have to make the difficult daily choices that they must make just in order to survive.
I'm sorry, but this reveals your mindset. You think everyone anti-Israel is against Jews. It is impossible to debate with you if you think the cause of my arguments are about anti-semitism. You wonder why people accuse you of being an anti-Islamic Nazi, well, look no further than your very thin and veiled attempts to paint people into square roles yourself. Obviously, Hamas is filled with some sick individuals, and Israel is not responsible for all of them. However, it's laughable how you think that shooting non-violent protesters has no echo. It is indicative of the apathetic out-view I despise. Do you know what? Pain, despair, and hurt have adverse reactions. Hunger leads to revolution. If you think Israeli policies such as deliberately keeping the Gazan economy on the brink of collapse http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4092665.../israel-pushed-gaza-brink-collapse-wikileaks/ and torturing children have nothing at all to do with their current problems, than you are deluded. Israel has always had the support of the most powerful nations on Earth. So this is a non-sequiter, a strawman. Would the Arabs have crushed a state imposed on them by the mandates of the British? I suppose if they had the chance, yes, just like Bangladesh eventually carved away from the British mandate for India. But they never had the chance, and they never will. So, despite the fact Israel is a nuclear power and well capable of defending itself, America still supports gross human rights violations by funding the nation...to what avail? So that Israel can sell these weapons to China? How has foreign aid to Israel become the "third rail" of American politics?!
gwayneco, have you ever been in the shoes of an Arab child taken away, and beaten in prison? it's so easy for you to rationalize the suffering of thousands as being "imperfections". Even Israel's civil courts are trying to stop some of the excesses of martial law, but to no avail. These things like throwing children into jail and convicting security guards to community service for murdering a child are NOT survival choices, they are vindictive and spiteful gestures that should be below any state that wishes to cast its' image as the shining beacon of democracy and freedom in the Middle East.
After doing some very quick research, I would not rule it out. I just quickly browsed this organization's annual report for 2009. Here is something from the foreword: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifat_Odeh_Kassis He is also heavily involved with a publication called "The Electronic Intifada". http://electronicintifada.net/people/rifat-odeh-kassis Some say that he "has made a career of attacking Israel while on the payroll of human rights and Christian organizations". http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=118&x_article=2073 So, to go back and answer your question above: Yes, I think, very likely they were. I browsed through the annual report of that organization, and, interestingly enough, there was not one word about young girls being married at age 7 in Yemen and raped as children, and neither about the bacha bazi practice in Afghanistan, or other atrocities against children worldwide. But this guy obviously has a bone to pick with Israel, and he uses his NGO as an outlet to do so.
Yet you fail to address the fact that his NGO has 48 national chapters, and is doing advocacy work for child labor and soldiers in Africa, and numerous other issues. You've resorted to going through NGOs and tarnishing anything about them, without even looking to deny the reports. What, as soon as they're published by a Palestinian, they're untrue? So why are we even bothering to listen to Israeli politicians? Maybe he knows first-hand how Israeli prisons are brutal, thank heavens he's trying to expose these issues through NGO reports rather than through violence.
AroundTheWorld, this is seriously f**king ridiculous, are you trying to tarnish this guy's name and work by saying he's not doing enough? How about you do half of the humanitarian work he does, and then you can look him in the eye, and accuse him of not doing enough for children.
Yes, fine, but you asked a specific question, I did some quick research and responded to your question. Yet, you are unhappy, instead of saying thanks. Ts, ts...how ungrateful...just because you don't like the outcome. "going through NGOs and tarnishing anything about them"? I was just responding to your question - I researched the source. And this guy is known as an Israel hater who has built his career on accusing Israel. No, but the opposite also applies: Not every account by a Palestinian must be true, especially if you consider the propaganda they have been exposed to since early childhood. Did you watch the two Youtube clips I posted? What is your comment about that? You don't think people who have been brought up being taught hate like that would be inclined to exaggerate what has happened to them? Fact: These people are free to tell their story. Mr. Shalit is not. He can't even tell a story, even from prison. We don't even know if he is alive. Maybe, maybe no. Maybe none of what he says is true, and he is just using it to make a career. Maybe some of it is true. Maybe a tiny bit of it is true. Who the hell knows. But you believe it because you want to believe it.
AroundTheWorld, if you want to know what pisses me off about your assertion... First of all, one report. Second of all, to even imply the guy is "picking" on Israel and ignoring the rest of the world, and helping children selectively, please. Seriously. Why don't do you do half of the work he has done before you have the balls of accusing someone of ignoring key issues relating to children, when the man has spent his life helping children. These people are the lucky ones. There are about 6,500 Palestinian children, never mind prisoners that include political activists in Israeli jails. You keep on bringing up Mr.Shalit this, Mr.Shalit that, f**k, Mr.Shalit is one person. How about you bring up 6,499 other hostages to equal the number of children being denied their future, if you insist on turning this into a marathon of crime and illegality between a terrorist organization and a "lawful" democracy that is flush with cash, and supported by the most powerful nation on Earth.
Let me just note real quick that you edited out the last sentence of Mathloom's paragraph: "Mind you, this doesn't make the whole thing less disgusting to me." With that out of the way, let's look at your justifications for indicting Mathloom as a Hamas sympathizer: 1) I don't think questioning whether Shalit is innocent in broad terms implies antisemitic attitudes. He is a member of an armed force engaged a conflict of disputed legality. Regardless, I agree with Mathloom that his innocence, or lack thereof, is irrelevant to any moral evaluation of Hamas. 2) Mathloom did not claim in his post that Hamas was acting lawfully, except in the narrow sense that Hamas itself may consider its actions lawful. This distinction is central to what I gather is Mathloom's point--that legal justifications for a given action rely on the legitimacy of the cited law; whether that of Israel, Hamas, an international body, or any other institution. So your justifications for branding Mathloom as an antisemitic Hamas sympathizer remain weak, as "1" does not necessitate the implication and "2" is a misappropriation of Mathloom's words. Furthermore, your claim that Mathloom trivializes the atrocities committed by Hamas ignores the sentence immediately following the lines you excerpted from his post (again: "Mind you, this doesn't make the whole thing less disgusting to me"). You mean antisemitic mindset, right? Because "juice" is a misspelling of "Jews" and thus the implication must be that Mathloom has a distaste for Jews, not merely the State of Israel. Please clarify your intent if I'm off base.
